this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2025

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Protect trans folk as you'd protect yourself (lemmy.world)

submitted 20 hours ago by PugJesus to c/politicalmemes

33 comments fedilink hide all child comments

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 hours ago

Nah, if they come for you in the morning,

They are coming for me in the morning, I am just too stupid to get it.

Ignoring the obvious fact that trans people are like everyone else. Any law against any group will fuck with everyone else. They wanted to ban abortions and now in some states, docs are afraid of saving your life because they might be blamed for the death of the fetus. They didn't fuck with "women who love abortions" (as if that was real) they fucked with every pregnant woman's life and in proxy, their friends and family's life. If they target trans people, they are one poorly written law away to ruin your life and as they target trans people.... They clearly aren't particularly the kind of people who might would get it "right".

Trans rights are human rights.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

The famous "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out" quote leaves out the fact that before anyone, the Nazis came for trans people.

[–] RememberTheApollo_ 47 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (2 children)

They came for the communists first. The fear of worker’s rights offered by communism is what caused the first fighting and gave Hitler power. Everything else followed. Hitler hunted down communists in ‘33. The prosecution of LGBTQ was a slower burn heading into the late 1930s.

However, I suggest we pay sharp attention to this:

Most people who held “transvestite certificates,” as Simon did, had them revoked or watched helplessly as police refused to honor them. That was just the beginning of the trouble.

This is exactly what republicans and trump are doing. Removing trans from passports, removing trans from military, etc.

Edit: before people downvote my position, they should read more about the lead up to the Reichstag Fire and the raid of the Institute. They are not singular markers in the course of history that define the beginning or end of anything. There were numerous battles with communist groups througout Germany in the 1920s and onward, from street fighting with Hitler’s proto-nazis to actions by the Weimar government. I don’t think anything I said is incorrect. Anti-communist action was part of Hitler’s rise and included the Reichstag Fire in Feb of ‘33, and the raid of the Institute was in May of ‘33. So even by that metric…they came for the communists first.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

lone_fairie is correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft

[–] RememberTheApollo_ 15 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

If you want to discuss technicalities:

The Reichstag fire was in February ‘33, the institute was raided in May of ‘33.

My original position was that fighting against communists helped bring Hitler to power, and those clashes occurred first, from street fighting to attempted uprisings by various communist factions within Germany. There is plenty of history out there on this. So yes, they still “came for the communists first” in the context of this discussion. I don’t say this to detract from historic persecution of LGBTQ people in any way.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

If you really want to discuss technicalities:

The institute was targeted by Nazis as early as 1920.

From about the early 1920s onward, Hirschfeld became a target of the far-right in Germany, including the Nazi Party. He was physically attacked during multiple incidents, including an incident in Munich on 4 October 1920 in which he was badly injured... By 1929, frequent targeting by Nazis made it difficult for Hirschfeld to continue with his appearances in public.

[–] RememberTheApollo_ 4 points 13 hours ago

Ok dude (or whoever you are), I don't need to get in the weeds of digging through history for ever-smaller events to continue with this debate. On the context of the discussion of the Reichstag vs Institute, the Reichstag events happened first. That pretty much settles the original debate. As far as wholesale attacks on groups, the Communists by far faced the most resistance and the most violent resistance before the somewhat more acceptable trans community (as long as they stayed within their restrictive walled garden) began to have their rights stripped from them as noted in the source I provided.

[–] inb4_FoundTheVegan 16 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

And with all the same talking points too.

who accused the movements of "degeneracy", going against family values and promoting "un-German" ideas. A particular target of conservative ire were LGBT publications and magazines, which were grouped with pornographic magazines as "filth literature". Laws such as the 1926 Harmful Publications Act were pushed through by conservative movements to attempt to limit or regulate the contents of these publications.

Protect the youth from being "converted" by banning books. The conservative political strategy is literally fascism. Modern trans people in prison are being forcibly detransitioned by denying them medication exactly the same way they were in the 30s.

[–] tehn00bi 26 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

Do something the Jews had little opportunity to do, arm your self.

[–] shalafi 14 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

And practice. Safety and fighting under pressure takes practice.

There are so very few trans people, and so many more of us.

[–] FordBeeblebrox 5 points 12 hours ago

This is seriously good advice. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Muscle memory may well save you or some one else’s life one day

[–] andros_rex 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

I can’t afford a gun, and if I could, it would not be something I could keep in my home.

[–] tehn00bi 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I didn’t say a gun. Of course that is probably the tool for defense against the jack booted thugs coming for those who dare to be different, but there are other devices. Prepare for a world where no one is going to save you.

[–] andros_rex 1 points 2 hours ago

The jackbooted thugs already kinda took everything already. No one has come to save me lol

[–] [email protected] 3 points 12 hours ago

you know what they say about the right to bear arms.

It's weird that you would need to legally codify the ownership of bear arms, but hey, not my problem.

[–] Fungah -4 points 11 hours ago (5 children)

I mean.

Probably not. I'm a straight white male.

I'm against bigotry because it is stupid, it holds everyone back, it's always based on nonsense, and frankly I really don't gibe a flying fuck one way or the other what someone else does if it doesn't directly effect me.

Not self interest. Self interest is how this fucking mess starts.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 hours ago

You just said 1, 2 and 3 reasons why they would come after you

Against the regime
Does not accept the status quo
Is not actively supporting the state

[–] Jhex 3 points 4 hours ago

Don't worry bud, they'll find something to come after you in the end

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 hours ago

No, they'll come for you in the end. Just by being sympathetic to trans people makes you one of "them".

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 hours ago

Sadly/fortunately(?) you are wrong.

Remember how they wanted to ban abortions, and now women who wanted the baby but have a medical emergency, might not get the medical care because doctors are afraid of accidentally "killing" the fetus.

What makes you think that they won't fuck up the laws against trans people.

(Of course, there are better arguments against transphobia but we are talking about selfish reasons)

[–] SoftTeeth 3 points 11 hours ago

The people in charge want to put trans people in camps

[+] kerrigan778 -13 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

I feel like the communist party optics detracts from the messaging here. Basically nobody who is sympathetic towards socialist let alone ML anti-fascist groups needs to be convinced to not be okay with discrimination against trans people. We need a true populist call to the American public that any big government that comes after trans people will eventually come for them and that we need to fight together regardless of politico-ecenomic ideology, because human rights are being violated and concentration camps are right around the corner.

This instead works as a call to antifa supporters to reinforce the us vs them where the them includes everyone who is right of smashing capitalism. And not only do trans people include lots of people who are right of fully dismantling capitalism, but potential allies definitely do.

[–] PugJesus 11 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Communist party optics?

[–] kerrigan778 7 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (2 children)

So this is the modern antifa flag used here, it is the red socialist flag overlayed by the black anarchist flag, it is directly based on and referencing this flag Which was the flag of the militant wing of the German Communist party.

I suppose you could say in the original post without the color it becomes more generalist in meaning but I suspect it was just for visual design and not to signal anything more anarchist and less socialist.

Regardless, trans rights should not be synonymous with antifa even if we are allies. The oligarchs are trying very hard to say that trans people are all "radical Marxists" let's not make it easy for them. We are people just like them, and it isn't Marxists vs capitalists, it is "we the people" vs "the ruling class of super rich" who want to control our lives and take our freedoms before giving up their domination and it always has been.

Tldr, that flag is antifas, antifa is much easier to villainize than "the trans population". Antifa is a political direct action group which I support and many do, but many don't, either because antifa has generally been anti-capitalist and some people really like capitalism (including many trans people) or simply because they just associate antifa with trashing downtowns and rioting and it's easy to be against those things. It's an easy target. Don't make trans people an easier target by lumping together trans rights and antifa as being just the same people.

[–] PugJesus 9 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Modern antifa also uses the three arrows of the Iron Front, which represents anti-(ML)communism. I don't think the connection is as deep as you portray it.

Regardless, trans rights should not be synonymous with antifa even if we are allies.

Not synonymous, but antifa are an ally in the fight for trans rights. Just like LGBT support should be welcomed if displayed by a corporation (despite corporations not really being allies), LGBT support should be welcomed if displayed by antifa (who are generally actually allies on the matter, even if you may not agree with the broader movement).

We are people just like them, and it isn’t Marxists vs capitalists, it is “we the people” vs “the ruling class of super rich” who want to control our lives and take our freedoms before giving up their domination and it always has been.

Uh.

I got some bad news for you about Marxism and capitalism.

[–] kerrigan778 3 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Lol I meant the struggle between trans people and allies vs people who want to exterminate trans people shouldn't be made out to be a Marxist vs Capitalist struggle, because there's a lot fewer allies there and there are plenty of trans people who actually are fairly down with at least some amount of capitalism. I'm all for allies showing their allyship in any direction, but don't make trans rights seem like an issue that is synonymous with more radical movements because that is how you reduce the number of allies you're going to find.

Ie. we need to band together and save fundamental human rights and democracy first, we can hash out our differences later.

For the sake of optics, I want no confusion that for a random person who doesn't think they know any trans people, thinking trans people should be left alone and safe doesn't mean people will assume they are "radical Marxists"

[–] saltesc 3 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Oh, wow. The original is much better. The modern one is very slapdash. They won't be attracting antifa graphic designers, that's for sure.

[–] kerrigan778 10 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

God yes, the graphic design of the early 20th century political movements was so much better though. The three arrows is my favorite by far. Perfect strong symbolism of meaning that still works today Works perfectly without knowing the language or the location, down with monarchs, down with fascists, down with tankies. And perfectly designed with the intent to be used to deface swastikas.