this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2025

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Why does the winter solstice mark the beginning of winter, and not the center? (self.nostupidquestions)

submitted 1 week ago by TheAvarageNerd to c/nostupidquestions

70 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I'd expect the shortest day of the year to also be the coldest, with the coldest season of the year spreading out equally on both sides of it.

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[–] leadore 44 points 6 days ago

To answer the original question, it's because the earth is very large and retains the heat from warmer times preceding the solstice in the water bodies and the ground, like a buffer, so there is a lag time for things to lose that heat and get to the coldest air temps. As an analogy, if you heat up some rocks in the oven, then turn off the oven, the rocks will still stay hot for a long time and gradually cool off.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Ever notice during the summer the hottest part of the day is usually around 3 or 4 in the afternoon instead of at noon? Same thing, just on the order of months instead of a day.

[–] trolololol -5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

That seems to be specific to where you are

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

If the days start cooling down at noon for you, you’re closer to the outlier set than me.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It's a timezones vs actual sun time thing. In Spain near me they are like 2 hours away from their actual sun time so you can even add that to the lag you said. I'm sure it's the other way around somewhere in the world, specially in medium and big countries

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

That's a little pedantic. The exact time isn't really important, just that it is not exactly at midday, it's a few hours after midday.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (2 children)

That's the thing though. Spain's time zone is so far ahead of where it should be, for most of the year the hottest part of the day really is around noon. When stupid-pretendy-time is in effect (which a quick google tells me is 7 months of the year), solar noon is at 10 am in Spain, which means clock noon is at 2 pm, roughly the hottest part of the day.

There's also the fact that local factors have an effect. Closer to the equator, the hottest part of the day tends to be earlier. Humidity can have an effect, as can the amount of concrete and asphalt versus earth and trees.

[–] deltapi 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I spent about a week in Toledo, Spain for a wedding a few years ago during the summer. We were taking siestas on our second day there and eating dinner at 10pm.

It was actually quite enjoyable operating on the Spanish time-conventions.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The thing is, the time zones aren't necessarily related to the lifestyle. A siesta at 1 on the current clock is identical to a siesta at 11 on a more natural clock. But either way you have a siesta when the sun is near its peak.

[–] deltapi 1 points 5 days ago

No, but being in Spain during the summer lends itself to doing as the locals do. I couldn't have given less of a care about what time zone I was in.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Time zone doesn't affect "midday"

Midday is when the sun is at its highest point. The hottest part of the day is pretty much always a few hours after midday.

Of course there are exceptions, there's almost always exceptions for literally everything and it's kind of useless pointing it out.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

Midday is 12:00. If you want to refer to solar noon, call it solar noon.

[–] Deestan 24 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Seasons are bullshit anyway

[–] Deestan 23 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Seasons of Bergen, Norway:

December - February: Cold and dark and wet season. Stock up on antidepressants, good food, "Hygge"-paraphenelia, asthma medication and remain indoors.

March - mid-July: Cold and green season.

Mid-July: Summer!!!

Mid-July - August: "pretend it is still summer"-season. Yes, we can grill and drink beer in the garden dammit just put on an extra jacket.

September: Wet and windy season.

October - November: Soggy cold season. Shoes and jackets go to the Drying Rack, not on the regular rack.

addenum: june-august is also barely-nighttime season. Sun "goes down" at 22:00 and remains barely under the horizon until 04:00 so the sky just stays bright. Good luck explaining to your toddler that it is night and time to sleep.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 days ago

Seasons in Texas:

June 5-October 25th: fuck you it's 100+° F / 38° C. Most non-native plants die if they receive direct sunlight all day. It's 85°F / 30°C at night.

October 26th - December 10th: fuck you it's 90° F / 32° C but also 40°F / 5°C in the morning; you'd better have 2 sets of clothes for the day

Dec 11th - Feb 28th: actually decent weather

March 1st - May 1: it's getting hotter but also raining a lot so it's muggy but the weather is still tolerable sometimes

May 2 - June 4: Hot and humid, sensory nightmare, air outside feels like your lungs have been filled with a damp blanket. 95+% humidity at all times.

[–] Lemminary 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Damn, that sounds a lot like Don't Starve Together seasons. How do you handle the human-size mosquitoes during the wet season though? 🤔

[–] Deestan 2 points 6 days ago

Remain indoors.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Seasons of Lahore, Pakistan (imo):

Mid-December to February: chilly weather, often between 4-15 degrees Celsius, pretty mild compared to the rest of the year
March: first spring, plants are noticeably becoming more alive, flowers are blooming, but temperatures are rapidly increasing. Around this time I set my heat pump to cooling mode
April to July: first part of summer, very dry, heatwaves start to happen. Temperature is around 28-40 degrees usually
July to early September: second part of summer, around as hot as the first part but monsoons start to happen
September: second spring, ofc similar to the first but temperatures start to drop.
Mid-September to November: the smoggy season. Pretty moderate temperatures (10-25 degrees), but there is way too much air pollution. A lot of it is due to farmers burning their stalks around this time. I set my heat pump to heating mode around the latter half of this season

[–] trolololol 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Why call it 2nd spring? I though the more used name is autumn

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago

In the video, the creator (talking about the seasons where they live, in Southern Coastal California) states that instead of saying "spring" and "autumn", they call both seasons "nice", because they are indistinguishable. I'm using the same rationale, basically.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA 4 points 6 days ago

Where I live we got green and brown

[–] fatalicus 19 points 6 days ago

I once again come to inform that "the start of winter" changes depending on where you are.

So in you case that is just how it lines up, but where I live the winter starts October 14th.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

There are (at least) four different definitions of winter:

Astronomical seasons are what you describe, and these are obviously based on astronomical events, for which the equinoxes and solstices are the perfect fix points. That the seasons start at these days is purely conventional, and in some times (roman empire) and places (Celtic calendar) people used these days as the center point of the season instead (also known as "Solar seasons"). Why those don't match up with the actual temperature has already been explained in countless other replies.
Meteorological seasons use a simple, month based approach, where winter is just December, January and February. That makes it easier for statistical usage but obviously is also just a man-made convention.
The energy sector defines winter as the time of extended energy needs due to heating. Where I live, that's defined as 1. of October - 31. of March, but for obvious reasons that's highly dependent on where you are.
Phenological seasons are a bit more what you're looking for: They are based on biological events in indicator plants and a lot more complex than just being four fixed periods and only ever the same for small regions. Where I live, there are ten phenological seasons, winter starts when the English Oaks drop their leafs and ends with the blooming of the Common Hazle.

In other cultures there might be vastly different seasons. In many tropical countries you'll only have the dry season and the monsun season.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago

Solstice sure as hell isn't the first day of winter of all of us, we got first snow on October or November.

[–] TempermentalAnomaly 1 points 5 days ago

Several cultures do use it to mark the middle of winter. Celts and Chinese come to mind. They are communiting a different set of information when they do it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

It's a social construct but it's based on the equinoxes/solstices being evenly spaced, somewhat objective, and easier than any alternatives.

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