this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
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Fuck Cars

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[–] [email protected] 95 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I still find it frustrating to see the exact same vehicles get significantly different tow ratings here vs Europe.

The other day the dealer tried to warn not to tow my utility trailer with my car as it would hurt the transmission (trailer was empty by the way). I pulled up an article from the UK where it was in the top three of best towing cars for this year.

Dealer looked at me like his brain needed to reboot, after which he told me the cars in Europe must be built differently or get different transmissions and left it at that.

It's truly baffling that manufacturers here hold that towing capacity hostage for arbitrary reasons.

[–] jocanib 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's so they can sell you SUVs.

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

This seems not very fuck cars but ok. Also who does not know you can tow with a car?

[–] [email protected] 83 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I think this is in response to stupid large truck vs kei truck thread that made the front page. All the car brains are going on about how everyone ever needs a stupid large truck to tow 85 boats at once

[–] mean_bean279 14 points 1 year ago (28 children)

While you don’t need a massive truck to tow things, I also can’t recommend towing with a VW Golf. Towing isn’t just pulling a trailer, it’s also stopping a trailer, keeping it steady at speed, and having a transmission that can handle it and keep temps in check. Longer wheelbases do help with stability at speed and sports brakes aren’t built for towing.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (9 children)

You can bet your ass that if it's certified to pull a certain weight in Europe, all these things have been taken into account.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And yet, the Golf is rated for up to 2,000kg in the UK (a select few Diesel models), and a 1,200-1,600kg range is typical for many other editions of that model. That's for a trailer with its own brakes, of course. When I had a trailer with electric brakes, I could stop the whole rig with just the brake controller. I towed that trailer with an S10 Blazer, which had a wheelbase only 4 inches longer than the Golf. The trick was to load it with enough tongue weight that stability was not a problem, rather than relying on a hefty vehicle to overcome sway. I never had a problem with transmission temperatures when keeping the trailer weight under the rated capacity of the vehicle, but an aftermarket oil cooler can always be fitted.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Oh you mean those 4 door vans that are passed off as a truck? Yeah no one should get those, they can't even tow all that well and what can you even use a 4 foot bed for? These are likely the same people that think you should get a $130k 5th wheel that is 32 feet long.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You are completely correct I was essentially trying to move along the conversation from the last post.

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[–] WhiteHawk 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I find it very strange that Americans consider 'trucks' and 'cars' to be two separate things. Trucks are cars.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

By law they are separate and distinct. Trucks are subject to less environmental regulations (emissions, mpg) are allowed to not conform as closely to automobile standards (the reason why you see trucks with the hood above the height of small children, and you need a stepladder to climb in) and also have to pass different crash tests to be considered "road safe" (a truck only has to not annihilate another truck in a crash test, but crash tests aren't done with say a truck and a motorcycle, or a truck and a small car)

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[–] knowledgephoenix 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

In my personal American experience, there’s a general notion that you need a pickup truck to tow anything; there’s so much marketing about how big tough pickup trucks can tow so much stuff and you really need this. So I think the implication of this post is less of a “fuck cars” and more of a “fuck trucks in particular”

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I agree but diesel cars are much more common in Europe and they have better towing capacity due to higher torque.

[–] Treczoks 64 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Not the core issue. My car does not run on Diesel, but I would not have any issues dragging such a caravan around. That is perfectly normal in Europe.

Why the Americans think one would need a thick fat pickup or truck just to pull a caravan is beyond me. Maybe it is just smart marketing to make people buy even bigger cars than they ever need.

[–] Nouveau_Burnswick 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

A quick search shows a civic can tow 1,100 lbs. A dodge caravan can tow 3,600 lbs. An F-150 tows 14,000 lbs.

Now someone may have a legitimate reason to need to tow thousands of pounds, such as someone who moves horses around.

But for normal use, my tool trailer comes in under 1,000kg (2,200 lbs); maybe someone working in a mountainous area would need more power? Most likely marketing.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It’s like choosing to drive a tractor around. Those F150 are great machines in circumstances where they are needed, but to go food shopping, you don’t need that. I have a RAV4 hybrid (my work requires a large trunk space, and I have kids and a dog) and I get 50mpg and people are amazed compared to 12mpg of their truck. Go figure.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (6 children)

The caravans in Europe are much lighter than the trailers in North America.

[–] Screeslope 11 points 1 year ago

I've seen plenty of small "Euro-sized" cars pull fully loaded horse trailers, so I suspect weight is not much of an issue. You need to get power on the road, and for that bulkyness of the frame is hardly the main factor.

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[–] jafo 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Once at work I said "My Audi sedan has a towing capacity of over 5,000 lbs, isn't that crazy?" A coworker said "That's almost as much as my Tacoma!" (Early 2000s model). Turns out 5,000 is closer to his combined vehicle weight + towing capacity.

I remember my grandfather using the Grand Prix to tow and pull out stumps and stuff instead of the work truck.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But will it pull a camper for two that actually sleeps 10 at 85 mph up hill in a 65 mph speed zone?

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

My people out east can teach you something.

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[–] Bucket_of_Truth 15 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Its probably worth noting that Europeans get more powerful cars than we do here in the US. I drive a 02 Golf TDI and it was only available as a 1.9L 90hp front wheel drive. The base model in Europe has a bigger turbo and offers 4wd versions.

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[–] over_clox 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Dutch people must not have many steep hills.

[–] Screeslope 30 points 1 year ago

You wouldn't believe it, but they routinely haul these over major alpine passes. Works well on climbs, but sharp corners and switchbacks require careful handling, causing everyone else a bit of grief.

[–] Nathandee 17 points 1 year ago

The don't.. but the neighboring countries do. That's where this caravan is going

[–] bleuthoot 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Don't worry, we'll even tow them to and trough Norway.

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[–] dimspace 9 points 1 year ago

or sharp corners

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (7 children)

We certainly do in the UK and I've seen people pulling Caravans up them with their cars. Maybe Europeans are just better drivers than yanks?

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[–] DestroyerOfWorlds 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

if you saw the sheer scope of trailers, campers, Tour Bus RV's, custom toy haulers etc that invade the coastal areas of where I live, you would realize the problem isn't the semantics of tow vehicle size. the whole "adventure camping" myth when two people bring a 800 square foot Motorcoach with a car in tow makes me want to vomit. its like a car brain with sepsis. leave your fucking house at home.

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[–] jerrimu 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Just make sure it's rated for the load you're towing and whatever works.

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[–] czardestructo 11 points 1 year ago

Just yesterday I was towing about a half to 2/3 of a cord of a wood with my wagon. Folks assume you need a giant truck to tow anything. Full disclosure though I was pushing the limits of my car, it pulls this weight without issue but stopping it risky and I have to drive very carefully and keep huge buffers between myself and the next car.

[–] MeshPotato 10 points 1 year ago

Been there as a kid in the 90s. Sitting in the back my my parents Toyota Carina with my 2 siblings, while we were towing a caravan.

That car had a 2l, 4 cylinder petrol and got through the Alps and Pyrenees. Iwas more comfortable touring that way than going by tent only. Now I'm in Australia where I'm gobsmacked by how much shit people "need" to go camping. All while I'm exploring the same locations and actually spending more time camping in the bush as I tour on a tiny, economical 125cc motorcycle.

Almost to prove a point, I took that little thing to Cape York and will take it RTW next year, partly to show that you don't need much.

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