In fairness, Mount Doom has multiple different names. Source: Finished the Silmarillion for the first time last night. :)
Orodruin, Amon Amarth, Mount Doom.
this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2024
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Yeah, it's like The Grand Canyon has a bunch of other names, but the one we stuck with is just: "The grand canyon. You know which one I'm talking about." Sometimes the boring but obvious name works. It's more believable that the people in this world renamed stuff to something obvious.
I used to parrot the "created multiple languages, named the place Mount Doom" meme up until I started getting deeper into Tolkien lore. Now I'm the obnoxious one that points out all the other names for Mount Doom, as well as translating other "cooler" names to show that they're all similarly named (my favorite being Khazad Dum, or "Dwarf Hall", followed by Cirith Ungol, or "Spider Cleft").
This is also fairly common in real life, for example, this map of Japan with the Prefectures translated to English.
I think this is the same in pretty much every country (well, once you add in people's names, like Jacksonville or Virginia), but it's a little more difficult to find because you have to use an etymology dictionary instead of just looking up the meaning of Chinese characters in a regular dictionary of that language because they're are still in current use.
For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_county_name_etymologies?wprov=sfla1
On my way to Capital City.
Got to stop at How? Good on the way
I want to go to How Good? now to find out.
"can you fetch the fork lift? I need to get a palette of troops from the army warehouse"
...yeah, i'd rock thousand leaves...
Nourishing joy sounds like a pleasant place.
still hill huh, sounds dangerous
my favorite being Khazad Dum
Which is pronounced with the second word as "doom" still so you know that's the only good name he had in his mind
Mount Doom is also where the band Amon Amarth got their name from which is funny because they don't have any songs with Tolkienian fantasy and they're not really even huge Tolkien fans. It just sounded cool
TIL. I had imagined it'd be something of Vikingish.
You read what?! What sort of sorcerer are you?
Oh, just the usual kind. :)
NGL, it's a tough read, but I figured out why...
There's really no dialog. There are characters doing things, but it's all distanced, like seeing things happening from 10,000 feet up instead of being in the same room.
I haven't tried since I was in my late teens. I read a lot but that one got me. I'm 50 now and still haven't picked it up again. Good on you.
Here's the other problem... He repeats himself.
So the book starts with the creation myth, the Gods creating the world with a song.
Then he tells it again, with a little more detail.
Then he tells it again with more detail about the various gods, who does what, divisions of labor and so on.
That happens over and over through the book... Ok, here are the elves. Next chapter. Elves get divided into multiple groups. Next chapter. Elvish family trees.
You have to get through all that before anything significant happens.
Isn't that because the book is basically a collection of notes roughly edited together?
Pretty much.
Reminds a bit of the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring to be honest. That start is slooow
Now imagine that with no dialog.
Yeah, I think it's all very interesting, but I'll stick to watching videos on the topics or reading wiki pages. I'll let someone else reorganize it into a package actually meant for consumption.
Yeah, I'm glad I did it, but your average wiki is more readable.
Tolkien studied languages, so he would've understood and probably appreciated how often things are named purely based on what they do or their immediate aesthetic values. Language is all about communication after all. Sometimes that necessitates complexity, but it should always be as simple as possible without sacrificing nuance.
the vast majority of place names irl are just objective descriptors, optionally with that having been twisted through time.
Exeter means "castle on the river exe", starting as "esceancaster"; Aberdeen means "mouth of the river dee"; Amsterdam means "dam in the amstel"; Stockholm means roughly "log islet" as it started on the tiny central island which they put logs around.
And of course in germanic areas there's the very common "burg/borg", which just means that the place has a castle/fortification.
I was gonna make a snarky comment about how Treebeard has a cool Elvish name, then I looked it up and “Fangorn” literally means “Treebeard” in Sindarin 🤷♂️
Yeah but his original name really is unpronouceable because it would take literal days to spell out, if I remember correctly. So it's not completely unrealistic for others to want a shorter version. Like when Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu gets shortened to Taumata Hill in english.
A tree with a beard by any other name would be equally a beardy tree.
...the appropriation of that Shakespeare quote really tried to get away from me at the end there.
Bad guy: Sauron
Secret bad guy: Sarumon
Didn't at some point he say "some call me Treebeard"?
A waterfall is a rare and majestic natural phenomenon that creates an tremendous yet calming noise while also conjuring up feelings of mystery and thrill. Our legends abound with hidden passages concealed within, and the mist they create often catches the sun and casts a rainbow. Waterfalls truly encapsulate the magic of life on earth...
We call them that because the water... falls...
Naming things is hard, but when you're giving a name to a thing that is elemental, powerful, and all-important, a very simple name is not a bad idea.
This reminds me of how absurd the naming of walkie-talkie is. You can talkie while you walkie.
As a non native English speaker it took me way too long to actually understand / question the name itself as we use it in German too and I therefore learned the word before I could speak English.
English is a deeply flawed but intensely playful language. It's like the weird kid at the playground who's clearly a mess, but they're always down for whatever.
I took a year in German. It's much prettier than its reputation in pop culture makes it. One of my favourite words is sehnsucht, and I keep trying to get anglophones to steal it.
What does sehnsucht mean?
Tough one to sum up, but the wiki page does a good job. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sehnsucht
Sure wish I was better at explaining things...
Thank you for sharing! This is why I asked rather than googling- I would have looked at a definition and moved on, rather than falling into that rabbit hole. I appreciate you.
And rainbows are bows in the sky that are often associated with rain.
Here's somthing neat, the moon of saturn, titan, has 2 mountains called Mons doom and Mons erebor