this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2024
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From what I understand, the military high command supported Yoon even after the assembly voted down martial law. If that's true, didn't he have everything to go through with the coup?

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

The high command might have been on Yoon's side, but the soldiers on the ground were not. The high command can't do shit if no one will follow their orders.

Soldiers were ordered to surround the Parliament and prevent a vote to end martial law. Yet the soldiers who were at the Parliament refused to fire upon or physically stop the politicians.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 51 minutes ago

There are dozens of photos that most of the military unit who were active at the parliament did not have magazines in their guns and often had blue training guns in their holsters or blue training pins in their assault rifles.

This is nothing you do by accident - especially not in a highly qualified military like the SK military. It is a very good way of making sure that for starters none does something stupid like kill a MP, but also to show other units (and people) that you are not really on the side of whoever commanded you to do what you do. And it mak sure you look favorable in court if things turn against you.

Considering that this was not a singular occurrence but happened amongst all types of units someone has ordered them/coordinatated this.

How high up that was? Who knows. But it was a pretty strong sign, especially towards other units.

Who knows, in theory it could also be a valid scenario that the military was "faking support" to motivate Yoon,knowing that he will be impeached after that.

[–] Mango 6 points 7 hours ago

Score one for humanity!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

Couldn't that have been just because of the immediate confusion and indecision about escalating by the lower unit commanders?

There could have been infighting in the military, but he surely would have had quite some support, no? Why not take the chance if he already commited to imposing martial law?

Edit: sorry if it came across like I support the guy. I don't. I'm just interested in sociology and politics. If you downvote me, could you explain what I'm getting wrong?

[–] ultranaut 8 points 5 hours ago

Infighting in the military is a significant escalation on the path towards a civil war. The chance for the coup to have any appearance of legitimacy was lost very quickly so it was either take that risk or back down. Ideally for a coup to succeed you have these details sorted and a plan in place to seize control before you start the coup, but that doesn't seem to be the case here so backing down was the only realistic choice.

[–] horse_battery_staple 20 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

Are you asking how Yoon could have had a better coup?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

I don't support him, if that's what you're asking. I'm just curious about sociology and politics. :)

[–] horse_battery_staple 13 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

It's absolutely too early to say what support he had or thought he had.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

He didn't really know for sure, either, I don't think. That's why it's weird to me that he just 'surrendered'. Was what happened completely legal this way? Can he not go to prison?

[–] horse_battery_staple 8 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

It's absolutely too early to say. The SK courts will bear this out. Anything you'd hear in this forum or the news is just conjecture.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago

True. I'm not taking any takes here to be definitely true. I was just interested in other people's perspectives until we get a proper response. :)

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

I looked at the username. Just in case.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Sorry, not that well-versed in the ecosystem here yet. What could my username have meant?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

I meant just in case it was something like "Yoon_the_coon420" or something like that.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Ah, I see. I thought there was a community of infamous South Korean conservatives or something.

edit: typo

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Imho no. Apparently (I have not dealt with South Korean politics before this) he was quite unpopular to beginn with. Blatantly disregarding the elected parlament would have destroyed any resemblance of a "lawful" takeover and might have provoked protest from all parts of society.

Also afaik saying he lifted martial law after the assembly vote is wrong in the sense that martial law was lifted by the assembly already. Pressing on would have put him in breach of the constitution. Of course he probably couldn't care less but keeping the appearance of still being a democracy is import. Most autocracy's nowadays work this way. People get to choose but the guy on top gets to pick the options.

[–] spankmonkey 9 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

People get to choose but the guy on top gets to pick the options.

Managed Democracy!

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds 2 points 6 hours ago

If the people voted by filling out Facebook quizzes

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Representative Democracy.

If Representative Democracy isn't democracy, then Switzerland is the only true democracy.

[–] systemglitch 2 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

I do struggle to feel that representative democracy is true democracy, because it usually struggles to represent what people really want.

In the age of computers we should be voting for everything as a collective.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 minutes ago

Eh... maybe not. People can get tricked into voting for stupid policies. California literally voted in a proposition that classify "gig app" (like Uber or Doordash) workers as "Independent Contractors" rather than "Employees", because of a lot of propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

Should we? At that point, the real decisions are made by those with the most charismatic performance.

What pure democracy assumes is that the competent decision will be more popular.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 hours ago

Maybe he didn't? Power was on in parliament entire time, internet wasn't cut off, no curfew, no news stations takeover, you know things you can expect in a coup didn't happen

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 hours ago

My Uneducated Assumption as a non- South Korean: (Correct me if I'm wrong)

He probably would've end up jailed anyways because there would be infighting within the military about whether to listen to the president or recognize the legislature that had just revoked martial law.

The supreme court would also side with the legislature and declare that the martial law was unlawful. (The supreme court also unanimously convicted a former president of impeachment)

2 Branches vs 1 person would make the president's order seem less legitimate.

There would also be mass protests and maybe even riots.

The president's approval rating is low. There would be a lot of protesters. It would be chaos.

I assume he just wanted to give up and hope for a lighter sentence.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

Knowing nothing about anything it almost seems like the mindset of a person who survives a suicide attempt where they realize the gravity of their decision only after they make it