this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2024

80 points (90.8% liked)

Politics Without Trolls

69 readers

1 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

No shitposters, trolls, paid influencers, bad faith actors, organisations, or foreign government agencies. Should there be any question, your true intent will be determined on a case by case basis decided by your post frequency and overall reputation within the wider Lemmy community.
Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. - Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
No Universal Monk

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That’s all the rules!

Civic Links

• Register To Vote

• Citizenship Resource Center

• Congressional Awards Program

• Federal Government Agencies

• Library of Congress Legislative Resources

• The White House

• U.S. House of Representatives

• U.S. Senate

founded 2 months ago

MODERATORS

skeezix

SatansMaggotyCumFart

JillSteinsPuckeredAnus

If You’re Progressive or Muslim, Don’t Waste Your Vote on Jill Stein (www.usnews.com)

submitted 2 months ago by SatansMaggotyCumFart to c/politics_no_um

29 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/21289050

An inconvenient truth for Jill Stein, the Green Party protest candidate for president, is that there are only two candidates who can win the presidency on Nov. 5, and she isn’t one of them.

The other inconvenient truth for her and her avowed progressive supporters is that every protest vote from the left against Vice President Kamala Harris is a vote for former President Donald Trump.

top 29 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] kitnaht 33 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Most of the people pushing this "Don't vote" or "Voting for evil is still evil" bs, are foreign interests or people who aren't registered to vote anyways.

If you really care, Vote for Kamala, and THEN protest after she wins. At least if she wins you'll still be ABLE to protest.

[+] apfelwoiSchoppen -17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Lumping the Don't Vote folks to foreign interests or non registered is super reductive and isn't how you (we) win votes. Disenfranchisement is systemic and part of the design of the system with which we vote in. Win them back by bringing their material needs and concerns into policy discussion. That's what many organizers are doing, thanklessly, but it is more difficult each cycle when nothing substantive changes for those peoples.

[–] Lemming421 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Look, if you don’t vote because you genuinely can’t see a difference between Trump “rapist, multiple felonies, ‘dictator on day one’, ‘I wish I had generals like Hitler’” and Harris “I don’t like all of her policies”, then you are a danger to yourself and others.

Normally in an election there is nuance. Not this time. Are you going to actively vote against the fascist, or not? That’s all there is to it.

[–] kitnaht 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, reductionism is how you broadly talk about a topic that spans multiple things. That's how that works. We don't have time to go into the complexities. The outcome of both is roughly the same. why or who or what doesn't largely matter.

I'm not here to make friends with these people, I'm here to counter their argument and make sure their harmful viewpoint doesn't infect others.

There is no winning them back. They are here literally to spread chaos and disrupt other voters. They aren't registered to vote anyways, and aren't going to vote anyways. There's no point in spending all that time and effort on an already lost-cause.

[+] apfelwoiSchoppen -9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This is such a depressing losing perspective. So the material concerns of billionaires is all that matters. They get their complexities heard and sorted into the choice of two candidates.

[–] kitnaht 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

So the material concerns of billionaires is all that matters.

Yeah, nobody said that at all, but glad to see you took the mask off.

They get their complexities heard and sorted into the choice of two candidates.

In a first past the post voting system...yes. Sorry. The world isn't perfect. Vote first. THEN protest.

[+] apfelwoiSchoppen -8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for reducing me too bud. Mask off. JFC, you can't handle a little debate without resorting to conspiratorial name calling. Bye.

[–] kitnaht 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This isn't a debate. This is a public service announcement.

[–] Cleggory -5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Neoliberal fascism has no room for debates, let alone critical thinking.

[–] kitnaht 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm a Bernie guy, but you've gotta be pragmatic when the literal alternative is the end of America as a democracy.

We can go back to debating when our nation isn't at stake.

[–] Cleggory -3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Who said fascists lack pragmatism?

Which supposed election cycle was the country not at stake?

Why do you believe democracy is healthy and functioning in America?

[–] kitnaht 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Which supposed election cycle was the country not at stake?

Basically every single one prior to 2016. If you're too young to remember those, then you're operating on a window of time that's too small. The Obama era was fine, and nobody said the country was at stake. Civility was still part of politics. Prior to that, the Clinton, and Bush eras were also just fine - Nobody claimed the country was at stake during those elections either. How is it that you don't see the massive difference between those time periods?

Why do you believe democracy is healthy and functioning in America?

It isn't, currently - because of the Supreme Court appointees. The only way to fix this is to vote D enough times that they can appoint some of their own Supreme court justices so that the system balances back again.

IF the votes are close enough for Republicans to finally pull off enough bullshit to hand themselves the election - they'll do it from now until civil war. You won't have the ABILITY to vote again. The only way to correct the current problem of the real fascists (Republicans) being able to push the system completely over, is to remove their positions of power. I've already voted straight D down the ticket. I've done my part.

The only counter to a heavily skewed Republican supreme court is a heavily skewed Democrat Congress. That's the whole point of checks and balances in this country.

And the fact of the matter is, regardless of this genocide, both parties right now are supporting it. With one, you get to continue pushing your voice - the other one has promised to arrest and/or kill protesters and has instances of praising Putin for his way of maintaining control; by killing his defectors.

So it's clear, that if you want your voice to be heard in the long term, that you'll vote for the side that keeps American democracy alive.

[–] Cleggory -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Basically every single one prior to 2016. If you're too young to remember those, then you're operating on a window of time that's too small.

You're definitely a white man to believe anything was better for average black Americans and women.

Civility was still part of politics.

In the 60-80s when political violence and assassination was rampant?? What is your age exactly? *Obama didn't experience rampant racism in his run and tenure?

It isn't,

Pretty big flip flop, but I appreciate your admission nonetheless. It's too difficult to take you seriously given the circumstances of your wildly ignorant framework of understanding.

[–] kitnaht 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I love how you gloss over the biggest part of my reply. Thanks for taking the mask off. This is a big tell for you guys. Drop to racial division, ignore voting as an important tool for changing things. It's always racial division; I guess that's in part of your guidebook on how to sew division. Every single one of you operatives jump to that no matter how the discussion is going.

Nothing that you've said gives anyone any reason why they shouldn't vote for Kamala. Racism against Obama? I'm a white man? Sounds like a perfect reason to vote Kamala. Thanks for playing, psyop.

[–] Cleggory -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You ignored every point I made yet you feel entitled to me spoon feeding you more answers. How privileged was your upbringing?

Keep your mask and hood on as you argue for making America great again.

[–] kitnaht 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Because yes, the person telling you to vote for Kamala is a Trump supporter that totally makes sense. And the person telling you not to vote is...doing what exactly?

Certainly not attempting to help.

Mods, this one is a troll - their mask is clearly off at this point.

[–] Cleggory -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I appreciate you sharing your feelings of privileged entitlement to "help" from people that you insult.

Certainly not attempting to help.

Not everyone is capable of comprehending nuanced and complex ideas. Simple minds demand simplistic solutions to complex problems.

[–] kitnaht 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

from people that you insult.

This is another tell. The "become the victim". If you've noticed, I've been awfully careful not to insult you anywhere...but you didn't pick up on that. :)

You are absolutely going by-the-book here...

[–] Cleggory -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

This is you trying awfully hard?

you're too young to remember

When you named-called* me a troll and attacked my imagined age which is arbitrarily lower than sufficient to think critically about my words?

Are you too young to remember making this about me instead of your dear leader Harris?

[–] kitnaht 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Awww, trying to change context by leaving out the whole quote! How cute.

If you're too young to remember

Is the quote. Thanks for playing.

[–] Cleggory -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You think old people have better memory than young people?

Your hero Biden is known for his cognitive abilities right?

[–] kitnaht 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

There's this weird effect where, people can only remember the times they've been alive. Weird how that works. Like me, I don't remember 100 years ago, because I wasn't around back then.

And clearly people voted for Biden for the same reason they're voting Harris now; to keep a known threat to America from gaining power. Nobody fanboys for Biden. We know what he is.

[–] Cleggory -2 points 2 months ago

[–] uberdroog 19 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Jill Stein sucks.

[–] cm0002 15 points 2 months ago

Don't worry she'll disappear again after Nov 5th...at least for 4 years then she'll be back again, ugh.

[–] Maalus -3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Harris being unable to win votes because her policies suck and because she can't win a debate with herself isn't really a voters problem, it's the candidate's problem. She wants those votes, she needs to have policies that make people happy and willing to vote for her. She doesn't get them "by default". Also shitting on people for "stop the genocide" being a "single issue vote" is such a bad take, it's not even funny. Shows the complete lack of empathy and the self righteousness of Harris voters.

[–] Bertuccio -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah. I get that we have to vote for her. But she's just using Trump's fascism as a cudgel against voters to push her own shitty policies.

If she genuinely thought the election was life or death she would compromise on Israel, rather than saying we're the ones that have to keep compromising.

I get that it's stupid not to vote or vote for Trump because she won't back off on genocide - but everyone calling that out needs to call out that Kamala could fix that entirely by just deciding to be on the right side of history.

This would be a slam dunk election if they'd stop supporting genocide.

[–] Maalus 0 points 2 months ago

If, woulda, coulda. Judge a person by their actions, not an imagination of them that "could" be. People simply don't see Gaza and Palestine as an important issue. They'll ask you how dare you, when you point that out. They'll say they are pro Palestine. And then they'll vote for someone who supports the genocide. The "g" word basically lost all meaning in the US. It's treated as unavoidable, people have given up completely and are returning to normal. After all, it all happened almost a year ago!