Futurology

Could be, but isn’t, which is where some regulations probably need to come in.

I assume also that the technological side of things is far from perfected, but that will improve over time.

Human waste could be used. It requires more processing to keep it safe, however.

There is also the complecating factor of chemicals. Night soil needs relatively little work. Toilet cleaner, however, needs more processing.

It's currently nowhere close to viable to do in a city environment, that could be changed in future.

/nightsoil has entered the chat

You should probably look up how most of your rice and beans are grown overseas.

Of course it is. Or do you really think, cow and pig manure is fundamentally different from our shit?

The only difference are some germs, but that can be handled - otherwise water treatment plants would cause epidemics downstream.

In the eventual future, sure. But that may be a century away. There are many other solutions that should be implemented before vertical farming that would actually protect ecosystems. The main thing would be pesticides. That’s what I’m far more concerned about than this mere concept.

Your criticisms of the tech are good. I agree with them which is why I said current alternatives are already taking off because you’re right, plant based proteins are doing well.

That being said, there are downsides to plant based alternatives depending on what your design constraints are. Notably some difficulties farming specific plants, crop rotations still need to happen, etc. Also the land consumption is still a concern. And despite criticisms it’s not like lab grown meat has gone nowhere, even recently.

However I’d agree that both this vertical farming technique and lab grown meat are long future technologies and I expect neither to mature fully in the next decade or two maybe. So in that case, we can cut down on meat consumption. Make meat only for special occasions or something. Then we cut down on the land area of meat.

I deal with this situation the same as with our power needs. Implement the things best available to us now and stop waiting for future tech. But as far as future tech goes, vertical farming has a ton of challenges and lab grown meat has more potential in my mind. Especially since lab meat is already being sold and consumed whereas vertical farming seems to exist still in the conceptual phase. Just my two cents though.

already frighteningly close to meat made from animal tissue

Eh, it depends. Plant-based burgers can be excellent, but I haven't had a convincing plant-based steak yet.

I don’t necessarily view the limiting factor as being the ultimate nutrient density per unit UV light.

Some compounding factors if you’d like to think about this more: UV light is not a monolith and so if you’re using artificial light you may be able to select for plants that still have high calorie yields but can accept a lower wavelength of UV that would lower power costs.

The same goes for water costs and just the general suitability for these vertical towers as well as what fertilizers work best for them.

The amount of optimization is one of the reasons I’m not hopeful for this type of project. There’s a ton of variables, you’re essentially making an entirely new form of farming and it’s a harder version of it. Meaning that it won’t experience the explosion of industry around it probably.

Photosynthesis only uses a couple frequencies. Using solar to generate electricity and feed that into target LEDs can be significantly more efficient.

Yes, it can come from renewables. There are many ways to build renewables in a way that doesn’t use additional surface area. Like you can have wild nature with wind turbines sprinkled throughout. Solar panels can built on top of most structures humans build anyway.

Vertical farming has the potential to use less land, allowing more wild natural ecosystems.

The controlled environment of vertical farming also allows you to work in a cleaner environment, meaning less need to employ pesticides.

Consumer panels are up to 23.5% now, and you can get bifacial cells that can boost that by up to 30%, so up to around 30.55%

Also the light is bouncing around that room, not bouncing off and then back into the sky like it would from the sun, and it's not necessarily all full spectrum, it's the spectrums the plants need, also reducing power compared to what the sun gives it.

Edit: Making shit up now, but what if photosynthesis only needs 30% of the spectrum, and the bifacial panels are 30% it might even be near equal.

Sure. The solar panels don’t need to be next to it, but can be anywhere. Solar panels can even be used on traditional agricultural fields while still growing vegetables or grazing animals. Using solar panels on surfaces like roofs or above parking lots is another way of placing them without using additional ground.

Why are discussing the logistics of such a complex project from such a singular perspective? Its pointless. They probably have their shit figured out.