Ah yes, mongols, known for their gentle and easy going temperament.
this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2024
455 points (96.7% liked)
Science Memes
11047 readers
3702 users here now
Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!
A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.
Rules
- Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
- Keep it rooted (on topic).
- No spam.
- Infographics welcome, get schooled.
This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.
Research Committee
Other Mander Communities
Science and Research
Biology and Life Sciences
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- !reptiles and [email protected]
Physical Sciences
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
Humanities and Social Sciences
Practical and Applied Sciences
- !exercise-and [email protected]
- [email protected]
- !self [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
Memes
Miscellaneous
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
When it comes to religion, yes. When it comes to governance, lol
(As per K&G youtube channel) I learned that when it comes to believe system, the Mongols believe that everyone worships the same god, Tengri, but in varied way in every culture/religion they encounter.
They believe that as long as everyone submit themselves under the Mongol rule, it means they obey Tengri/Mongolian god.
There are various religious communities inside the empire but they also don't bother to do the worst thing possible to obliterate anyone who doesn't submit to Mongol, regardless their believe.
But I think in a smaller level it's also not as simple/straightforward as that. Mongolian Shamans also known to have conflicts with the Khan. Sometimes the Khan kept asking the Shamans to do a ritual over and over again until the result aligns with the Khan's desire. Or sometimes the Shaman (being a regarded class in their society) have their own political motive to do something against the Khan.
Also known for inventing the phrase "lend me your ear".
Is this...Mongolian propaganda? Because the Kahns definitely did a whole lot of subjugating, raping and murdering. Not sure that really fits the "coexist" meme...
The meme format doesn't really work, but the joke they're trying to make is that even though they did all these terrible things, it was never because of religion. In fact, they just didn't give a fuck in what you believed in. Genghis even allowed religious figures to be exempt from taxation.
And let's be honest: the Mongolians were probably not worse than any other invader. War, destruction, looting and raping is kind of par for the course for most civilizations in history.
Honestly from the limited knowledge I have, Mongolians seemed to be the one of the chillest of invaders. They gave you a clear choice, let us rule you or die. And once they ruled you they allowed many freedoms that crusaders and colonizers didn't. Their tactics were brutal and I think that's why people see them as so evil.
Mongolians seemed to be the one of the chillest of invaders.
Literal mountains of skulls...
For every mountain of skulls there were 10 villages that decided Mongolian rule wasn't so bad.
...in comparison to the mountain of skulls, that were likely raped before they died.
The Skull Throne ain't gonna build itself
Mongolians were the OG (original grimdark)
TBF, the Mongolian invasions are literally what gave birth to Khorne
load more comments
(1 replies)
Well sure, but they were really good at it all
Modern Mongolia, perhaps. The Golden Horde of Genghis Khan was not so tolerant!
Yes, they were. Genghis' Mongols didn't generally force religious change in the people who they subjugated.
It's actually a cool belief system from what I've read, known as Tengriism; they had their own beliefs but (and I hope I have this right) that whatever religious worldview prevailed locally was considered not just valid as a personal or cultural expression, but actually metaphysically true as well. That seems fantastic, doesn't it? Patchwork metaphysics.
I’m not an expert but from what I’ve read most ancient world deities were attached to certain geographies (it would be reasonable to sort of leave the boundaries of your gods) so I wonder if this comes from that tradition. The roman catholics sure successfully weaponized monotheism.
That’s one way. Another was syncretism. The Romans famously stole the Greek gods, but they also worshipped isis for example. “That god resonates with me, so sure why not”.
I just love how fun it would be to believe that yes, god is the Creator of the Cosmos and he lives in the sky, I have a rich cosmogony that tries to explain the Universe and Everything...But also, if you cross that mountain to the west and traverse the river beyond, them you'll be in another part of our empire where the universe was created by the boogers of a Titan or something like that I was too busy picking up my arrows to listen. Bless them.
Yeah that era must’ve been weird. I mostly know of the era of antiquity where “these strange people say the god of medicine is the husband of the Queen of the Dead, but we all know he’s a moon god.”
Provided you paid your tribute and obeyed the Khan's laws they were cool with just about everyone. Fail to do either of those things and you're in for a bad time.
I mean pretty consistent with today’s neoliberal values:
It’s okay to exploit people as long as we don’t discriminate.
The neoliberals of the 13th and 14th century
The way I hear it told, Genghis Khan liked all types of women. 😉
It was mixed. Their subjects were more free to travel, practise religions, and generally exist within the empire than without it. It was just that transition. The Mongols liked to do things the easy way, or the really easy way.
Genghis Khan: Are you good at killing and terrorizing my enemies? Yes? Ok, see those fuckers over there? Conquer them. I don't care how. Burn it all down. Re-route an entire river. I just want them paying tribute.
I find it interesting how the Mongolian empire has kind of taken a 180 in its historical image. Not long ago they were viewed as just cartoon villains that destroyed everything. But now you see so many people talking about some of the "good" aspects that it almost makes them seem strangely benevolent.
The reality of course was that they were an empire, and like all empires they steamrolled and destroyed anything that stood in their way while taking advantage of anything that furthered their goals. They probably killed far more people than they helped if you asked anyone living through the time.
Dan Carlin's podcast, Hardcore History, has a series called Wrath of the Khans where he talks about this in length and it's very interesting to think about.
from my understanding , it's a chain of
You see that village over there? they resisted. we burnt everything , killed every man and child, and raped all the women.
See the other village over there? they joined us, and we gave them access to goods from across the world, the latest technology and treat them better than their previous rulers.
Your choice.
load more comments
(1 replies)
When people think about Rome they usually imagine the roads and the aquaducts and not so much the crucifixions and the slavery.
Yeah, the Mongolians front-loaded most of their atrocities. Rome was more of a slow burn
Rome was both. The mongols raped and slaughtered. The Romans were too civilized to do that as much, instead they just enslaved some of your village so they could die in the mines or fields or construction projects. And then there’s the internal atrocities. Rome had three servile wars and then without easing up even a bit never had another.
The Kahns were more like the Shahs, conqueror emperors seeking to hold the great titles of the world like emperor of China or pharaoh and in doing so became one. The Romans were like America “we’re different snd our own thing” before being a different kind of brutal
Well, they might imagine one specific crucifixion
Strangely enough I feel like that crucification isn't much associated with the Romans. Even though the Romans were the ones who carried it out Judas gets almost 100% of the ire.
Even Jews are given more blame by antisemitic Christians. Like, no one is starting up a pogrom against Italians because their great great great grandpa might've been the guy who stabbed Jesus in the ribs.
Theologically, all mankind was to blame because of their sins.
But it's far easier to blame a minority and it had the added benefit of pushing whatever agenda the ruling class had.
load more comments
(1 replies)
China doesn't want friends. That's why they built a wall to keep those friendly Mongols out.
God damn Mongolians keep breaking down my city wall!!
They were also great environmentalists who did a lot to fight global warming.
And overpopulation!
load more comments
(1 replies)
Not with the owner of City Wok!
Or Jin Sakai.
Ghost of Sushi is such a masterpiece magnum opus of an amazing fucking game.
So, that's a honey badger in a capy disguise?
Atheists: Us too, right?…
As long as you pay them tribute, they don't give a fuck.
Why are they so wonderful?
China enters the chat
view more: next ›