this post was submitted on 12 Sep 2024
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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[–] negativenull 112 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Klingons are amazing. Another example:

[–] hamms 79 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I also really appreciated Worf and Martok's take on Garak's struggles with claustrophobia

Martok: There is no greater enemy than one's own fears.

Worf: It takes a brave man to face them.

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[–] [email protected] 79 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Our gods are dead. Ancient Klingon warriors slew them a millennia ago. They were... more trouble than they were worth.

Maybe just one of the many reasons Klingon's often seem ridiculously awesome. When you reject ancient gods because they were "troublesome" you're choosing to build a world where the world having no meaning becomes liberating instead of suffocating.

No wonder things like this are so easy for them to understand. No religious baggage!

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago

I like to think of that stance as “positive nihilism” if that makes sense. It is liberating to really feel in your bones that it’s OK to focus on one things that really matter to you rather than the things you’ve been taught should matter to you.

[–] GraniteM 9 points 1 week ago

Was it ever made canon that the old Klingon "gods" were a spacefaring race that conquered the still plabet-bound Klingons with superior technology and were eventually overthrown? I feel like that might have been beta canon, or maybe just a very compelling fan theory.

[–] [email protected] 65 points 1 week ago (6 children)

NOOO BUT SHE ISN'T TRANS SHE'S A TRILL WHICH IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT'S STILL DAX JUST FROM.....

  • Real people who don't understand symbolism.
[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Do the symbiots even have genders? How do they reproduce?

The first name comes from the host; the second name is the symbiot. Like, Jadzia was "Jadzia" before being joined, and was still called "Jadzia" after; she was just "Jadzia Dax" after joining. Curzon was the male host.

Do you think the Trill were a metaphor for trans people? Really? Given the symbiot factor, it seems a stretch.

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[–] Olgratin_Magmatoe 27 points 1 week ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

I don't think the writers intended the Trill to be a an allegory for being trans. It was probably just supposed to be a cool sci fi stand in for being different. You can only show current, real life discrimination being non existent in the Federation in so many ways before you have to make up new things.

But it also doesn't change anything. Trans allegory or not, it's yet another instance showing how Star Fleet and the Federation value everybody, no matter if they're different or how they're different. Fuck the transphobes.

[–] GraniteM 17 points 1 week ago (3 children)

There's that DS9 episode where Jadzia risks exile from Trill society to revisit an old relationship, and, if not necessarily trans, it reads pretty obviously as a queer allegory.

[–] Olgratin_Magmatoe 5 points 1 week ago

I still wouldn't say that one reads as a trans allegory. The conflict arises from failing to meet social expectations, not from changes in gender.

But yeah, it definitely reads as a queer allegory.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That’s how I feel, but I don’t think it takes away from people who see the situation as similar to being trans.

And also, just in general, it’s so easy to treat trans people with respect. It’s very easy, and if you do make a mistake on their pronouns or accidentally deadname someone, I’ve never ever had them take it offensively, just apologize and we move on.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago

I don't even think it's symbolism from the Klingon's perspective. It's a bit different with the Trill extra personality there, but the objection is the actual point. That's still Dax in there, even though they look different now.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Sisko still calls her Old Man though. Somewhat ironically, but consistently.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah, but less in a pronoun sense and more in a nickname. She never asked him to stop, if she did I'm guessing he would have stopped immediately

[–] ummthatguy 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

A term of endearment they share, not seen as an insult, and all the more silly that the Dax symbiote is now hosted by a body younger than Sisko. It works well.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 week ago (11 children)

Because their masculinity and confidence in themselves is so impeccable that nothing that anyone any where can say or state about any other sexuality will ever effect them.

They are so comfortable and sure in who they are that nothing they ever see, no matter how different, will ever affect them.

To me, someone who accepts everyone else while maintaining their own surety on themselves is the height of masculinity.

[–] ummthatguy 34 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

“Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.” – Marcus Aurelius

Edit: extrapolated for modernity, rephrase as "good person"

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Honestly, I’ve gained a whole new level of appreciation for Jadzia’s character in recent years, largely in light of how absurdly politicized gender identity and trans rights have become.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 week ago (15 children)

I've spent too much time on computers.

I don't see people as their age, gender, color, name, whatever. To me, a person is a construct, that construct is immutable. You, as a person, exist, only your variables change. Your name, age, gender, sex, personality, political views, culture, race, skin color, etc, are all properties of the immutable object that represents you.

In this way, your name, gender, age, political views, etc, can all change, and the human object that is you, never changes.

Technology does this already. A good example is with user accounts for something like active directory (the windows domain login thing). Your user object isn't assigned by name, or login ID or whatever. You have, what is referred to as a UUID inside of the system. To that UUID, you have parameters like your name, email, phone number, etc, attached to it. When permissions are given, they're given to your UUID, not to your name.

Because of this, the administrators like me, can update your name, phone number, login, email, etc, without changing what you have access to. Your email account is tied to your UUID as well, so your user object has permission to access that mailbox, and it's listed in the parameters as your primary mailbox (for stuff like auto configure).

It's all very basic object oriented stuff.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What you identify as does not matter, as long as you die in battle with honor!

[–] Veneroso 9 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Do they have no joy!?

Show your joy!

Kaplah!

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[–] pyre 31 points 1 week ago (2 children)

wait, so if someone tells you to refer to them in a different way, you can just go "ok" and move on without the smallest hitch in your life? without losing your shit and foaming at the mouth?

nah... no way.

are we sure this particular Klingon didn't start a podcast later to cry about this for months?

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[–] ripcord 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Wow, I saw that episode, for the first time, like an hour ago.

[–] terribletortoise 19 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Oh wow. You have so much more wonderful DS9 ahead of you still!

[–] ripcord 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I hope so!

Though unlike 99.99% of the rest of you, pretty sure when I hit the dominion and changeling stuff I'm going to nope out. I have some vague recollection of bits and pieces I caught and people I've talked to about this stuff. I'm guessing that's what you're talking about?

I like the moral wrangling and optimism; with characters I can admire. Not the "darker, grittier" and action-y stuff. But I'll give it a try!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The beauty of old trek is in its episodic nature. Don’t like that episode? Skip it. There’s plenty of great episodes on DS9 that completely sidestep the dominion war. Though I have to say the one with Quark teaching the Vulcan about the price of peace is fantastic.

[–] ripcord 4 points 1 week ago

I just saw that one!

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[–] Veneroso 8 points 1 week ago

Honor to you and your house!

Kaplah!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Now I feel bad that perhaps her best friend kept calling her "old man".

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