this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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[–] [email protected] 78 points 4 months ago (1 children)

No. For a destination where I am going this summer a train trip is 12h with a stopover and if I want a sleeper cabin, the whole trip is 300€. Plane takes 1.5h and costs 50€.

Also as I'm in the middle of one of those routes, if I were to return home by train, I'd need to get off at 3am.

Here's my solution: tax the living hell out of aviation please, use this money to subsidize trains. There will be more supply and more demand on the rails. We will suddenly have frequent and convenient connections. And we all will be co2-neutral.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Your case is very clear cut, but for some journeys where travel times are closer together, e.g. 1 hour flight versus 4 hour train people do tend to forget that there is extra time wasted going to the airport, checking luggage, boarding, whereas the train is "just there". Depending on your location going to the train station may also be faster than going to the airport, maybe even cheaper!

That said, the price of each journey most likely will always favour flying at the moment.

[–] suction 5 points 4 months ago

I have never had a train journey where something hasn’t gone horribly wrong like missed connections, cancelled trains, trains overcrowded with drunk football fans, etc.

Having to look for hotel at night in middle of nowhere or having to sleep in the station because the next train is going tomorrow can ruin the whole trip.

Planes can be cancelled too but it’s not a guaranteed thing like with trains.

The probability of a smooth plane journey feels like 90% while for trains its like 1%

[–] [email protected] 48 points 4 months ago (1 children)

To neighboring countries yes, if there is a good connection. If there is a night train even further. However, the price should not be much higher than a flight and I want to change train as little as possible. Buying tickets should not be too complicated either. Unfortunately, taking an airplane is often easier in my experience. We need a true high-speed railway network across Europe. Something like the Shinkanzen.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm currently waiting for a train to go two countries over for a weekend, so... yes?

[–] [email protected] 39 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] Tylerdurdon 28 points 4 months ago (1 children)

What about now? I need updates man. Life of noodlejetski is a thriller!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

still chuggin' along, but in roaming

[–] colderr 6 points 4 months ago (4 children)

It's been 15 hours, how's life?

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It is just too expensive compare to plane and that's a shame. I've seen it is cheaper for scotisch and Londoners to meet in Spain than to take train.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I took a trip from the Netherlands to Romania, and amazingly only had a single transfer.

At least, that was the plan, but then a train went missing on the way there and we had an additional transfer. Pretty stressful. Way home was super smooth though.

The one thing I don't get the EU doesn't bring down the hammer on is getting directions and buying tickets. Feels like that should be a relatively easy fix, forcing all European rail companies to align from the top down. But I'm probably unaware of something that makes that harder than it seems.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I am fighting the train travel jihad, I take the train even if it's more expensive and takes way longer.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

There are dozens of us! Dozens!!!

[–] JubilantJaguar 6 points 4 months ago

Agreed, me too. Have been to all four corners of Europe and beyond by train. It's fine, a bit expensive and time-consuming but with advantages too. And at least I'm not a hypocrite when I say I care about the climate.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago

As a French living in Germany, I often take the train to visit some friends/family. I would say it's working well from Frankfurt to Lyon or Frankfurt to Paris and not too expensive if you have a Bahncard and you can plan your trip in advance. But IMO, it the least we should expect from 2 neighboring countries.

I'm very excited to see the resurgence of night trains though, I love this mean of transport in particular!

[–] Gradually_Adjusting 16 points 4 months ago (1 children)

One of my dream vacations is to get my wife and kid Eurail Global Passes for a few weeks or a month, and just backpack everywhere constantly staying in hostels and seeing everything. It'd probably be kind of stressful and tiring, but memorable.

[–] OhmsLawn 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I've never done that, exactly, but I've done several trips of that length around Europe and South America.

My (general) sanity rules have become these: never stop for less than two nights, always spend four nights in the same place after 2-3 shorter stops, and spend a full week somewhere during the trip.

While this may feel limiting, I've found that anything more strenuous has always overwhelmed someone in the group.

Edit: minor schedule adjustments

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I'd say: do the opposite! Don't plan anything, stay no more than two nights at the same place, jump on a train and see where you end up. Then, if you don't like, just take the next train somewhere else.

I did this twice in my early twenties and it was amazing. I mean, it was absolutely horrible. I slept on bark benches, in Cafés, in train stations, before train stations (until they turned on the sprinklers)... I was picked up by the police because we got lost in a field and more than once I was convinced I'd die. But it was absolutely worth it and both trips became core memories / PTSD trigger.

But seriously, don't follow this advice if you have a kid and are not an immortal twenty-something.

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[–] Gradually_Adjusting 6 points 4 months ago

Thank you for the sane guidelines. My latent hubris would no doubt have me blurring about the continent like the subject of an international manhunt. Having spent 48 hours on a cross country Amtrak once, I should be less keen to recreate the experience in European terms.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

Please avoid trains in Greece. Last year about 60 people were killed (most I think were uni students), because we don't have almost any safety mechanisms.. There were two trains, one with passengers who took the last train and one on the opposite direction on the same track for ~10 ehole minutes before the collided..

The other train seems to had been carring illegal flammable oil or sonething that caused an explosion upon collision.

The goverment tried to cover up everything once it happened (they even poured cement on the collision point and removed debris "to clean the space", thus removing evidence), there were some (unifished) joke trials that lead almost nowhere (there might still be investigations) and most importantly, the people working on the trains say that there have been nearly zero improvements to the system. And they blamed it ~all on the single guy who managed the tracks/routes of the trains.

Another symptom of capitalism (the company which operates the trains is private for some years)..

Check this wikipedia article if you want to learn more https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempi_train_crash (or search somewhere else).

It's sad because trains ~should be the future means of transportation, along with trams (only the capital city has tram I think)..

PS. On the other hand, I dont know how much less safe our trains are compared to boeing planes, hmm.

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[–] TheEighthDoctor 12 points 4 months ago

I dare you to find that train between Lisbon and Madrid

[–] makyo 11 points 4 months ago

I am in love with train travel but in the last years my local system has lost a step or two, to put it mildly. I'm seriously considering going back to more air travel, and I hate what the whole flying experience has become.

It used to be that one could spend three hours dealing with the airport experience plus an hour or two flying - or enjoy four or five relaxing hours on the train to somewhere, no garbage security checks, lines, etc. But nowadays on the train you're almost guaranteed delays, cancellations, extra stopovers, etc., which means sometimes you're not even sure on longer trips if you'll make it home that day.

Obviously this cancels out any advantages of train travel aside from the environmental ones. And if you have someone like me, who like I said, absolutely loves traveling by train, considering going back to the airport - how are you going to convince the average person to ride instead of fly?

I'm sure it's all the result of cost-cutting efforts but train companies desperately need to underderstand that what makes people more likely to ride are the things they're choosing to sacrifice when they're trying to cut costs.

I firmly believe train travel needs to be heavily subsidised and not run like a business. Leaders need to understand that it's important infrastructure and enables business of all other sorts. Not unlike the highway system, which they do without batting an eye.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I did an interrail journey some years ago, so yeah I guess! (800 euro at the time for 15 days of unlimited train everywhere in Europe but the country you start at, it was a cool trip).

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago

I know flights are usually cheaper (unfortunately, when you look at the CO2 emissions), but I like to take the train from time to time. Last time I did Barcelona - Madrid in high-speed-train, that was quite nice.

[–] Flanhare 11 points 4 months ago (4 children)

The railway system in Sweden is trash. We have to and should have spent a lot more into maintenance and new tracks.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Interesting to hear that other countries have the same problem. Sweden wasn't one I would have thought of tho.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's important to remember that everyone places that bar differently.

"Bad" in one country could mean the trains are 2 min late while it could mean 45 min late somewhere else.

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[–] Frostbeard 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I am from Norway so....no. Just to make the point even more clear. That pink line up north. It's mostly for shipping iron ore from Kiruna to the port in Narvik. It can take passengers but it's not its main purpose. And the rest of the Norwegian rail system stops in Bodø. So from Narvik to Bodø you need a six hour+ bus drive. (This is an map of the EU system I think so Norway and the UK are left out)

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (6 children)

As I'm living in the north of Germany I could probably easily go to Denmark and Sweden, haven't tried that yet though. Been to Prague by train once, which was okay, as there was a direct connection by EC.

Actually I'm planning to go to Austria this summer, so I've recently looked it up. Plane tickets are more then twice as expensive compared to train for my route. The train takes 11-12 hours (depending on connection) though, which is absolute max for me. So yeah, wouldn't go further than that. (Still looked up a connection to Croatia, that would've been an absolute pain in the a** by train...)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

The Swedish sleeper trains between Berlin/Hamburg and Stockholm are pretty convenient, and I can highly recommend them. Apparently there’s one (run by Snälltåget) between Stockholm and Dresden now as well. When the Fehmarn tunnel opens in a few years, the trip will become a few hours shorter, hopefully opening up new routes.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sweden is so bloody long. I've gone to Norway and Denmark by train. Denmark by train was roughly the same time as flying, including transfer etc. Too far for any other country really

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The trick is to catch a sleeper train. Have a full day of work/leisure, board the train, sleep, and wake up at your destination in the morning.

The Stockholm-Copenhagen journey is short enough that they park the train somewhere in the middle of southern Sweden for an hour or two to make the timing more convenient.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Yes. Took the sleeper train from the Netherlands to Italy last autumn.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Over many years I took my kids by train to see almost every country in europe (all except Moldova, Kosovo, and islands...). Mostly we used inter-rail tickets as kids up to 12 are free. Now they got older it's more difficult, but a few weeks ago took my family from Wallonie to Catalonia - for 29€ each person, all the way from belgian border to spanish border (with some hours in Paris). Can also get good prices from DB crossing three countries (e.g. Belgium - Italy, or Poland ). It helps to know the routes (use openrailwaymap) and experiment with the options (add 'via', change stopover time etc.). Indeed it’s frustrating that every country system is different.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I traveled by train within Kosovo. A 2-hour trip cost 3 euros.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (6 children)

From the Netherlands I take the train to:

  • Paris (HSL)
  • London (HSL)
  • Belgium
  • Austria (night)
  • Germany (want to try night)
  • Poland (via Vienna or Berlin, usually fly back)
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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

From Germany, I have been:

  • to Switzerland (3 or 4 times)
  • to Sweden via Denmark (twice)
  • to Italy via Austria (one direction) and Switzerland (other direction)
  • to Corsica, technically a part of France (don't tell them) via Italy, also taking a ferry
  • to the Czech Republic
  • and some mixed hitchhiking & train to Belgium and France

And I will go to France (Bretagne) soon.

I hoped to take the sleeper some time, but all routes we looked for, they are so much more expensive than a day train + one night of hotel stay that we opted for the latter.

Out of the countries I have been to, France and Italy have the best connections between cities/regions, while Denmark has the worst.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I did and will continue to do so... But I think I am still in a minority here. Most people probably just get on a plane. At least if they are going further than a neighbouring country.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

I have done Berlin-Paris multiple times. My partner has traveled from Berlin to Manchester with a stop over in London. Berlin-Copenhagen as well. We like traveling by train

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I'm a finn. The choices are the connection to Russia, or that long detour up north to get to Sweden. So not really.

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[–] supercriticalcheese 6 points 4 months ago

If the French will decide to fix the line connecting France to Italy that was damaged due to a landslide last August then yes otherwise it's difficult as travelling via Switzerland is crazy expensive.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

Yes I just did, but the line I used isn't on your picture. I used the ÖBB Nightjet from Zürich over Innsbruck and Wien to Budapest.

The train left at 20:40 and arrived at 08:00 the next day. Was pretty chill. Though I wish there was more modern rolling stock for nighttains.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Between other countries yes, from my country no. I'm at the edge of Europe and our trains are bad so planes usually make more sense.

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[–] Schmuppes 5 points 4 months ago

I just travelled the Danube by bike. Wish there woulda been trains in Romania that allowed my bike, but I was forced to take a bus for 37 hours to get home.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

If it can be done in less than a full day, yes. Going between, say, Berlin and Stockholm or Munich and Venice, I’d take the sleeper train. Going from Stockholm to London or Madrid, though, I’d fly: as much as I’d prefer to take a train, a journey would take some 24 hours, with several connections (vulnerable to delays) and cost a lot more than a cheap flight.

Hopefully train connections will continue to improve, though.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

To neighboring countries yes, but not across multiple borders.

The only exception from that was taking a train from Germany via Belgium to Luxembourg, but that hardly counts.

Else I've done Germany -> Austria, Luxembourg, Netherlands, France, Czech Republic on individual trips, and also did Denmark -> Sweden, Sweden -> Norway and Czech Republic -> Austria (in a sleeper)

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

I've taken too many trips to count between London and Paris, Marseille, Lille and Brussels. Extremely convenient way to get to France, and SNCF trains are crazy fast. Oh, and I did a trip from Berlin to Paris a few years back. It was kind of interesting - as soon as you were on French track, the train accelerated fast enough to push you back on your seat!

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