this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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[–] MotoAsh 91 points 3 weeks ago (25 children)

Seriously, this kind of stuff is what makes most superhero movies/content so dumb. When they're getting tossed through buildings and causing literally trillions of dollars of damage every fight, while magically not hurting innocents or getting the world pissed at them, it completely removes it from any chance of being even realated to the real world.

Some of the best super hero content is great specifically because they at least attempt to keep things grounded in mortal reality. Unfortunately, the only one I can think of right now that exemplifies it well is the blatantly obvious The Boys.

Hopefully others know of way more/better ones. I know some content creators understand this problem, so there has got to be more than a handful.

[–] [email protected] 91 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

I think this is what The Incredibles does very well. It throws you into a world with super heros, makes you think they're cool, then shows you what would actually happen to them when they start "saving" people and smashing up infrastructure. Probably one of the best super hero movies out there.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah except in the modern day they'd have been protected by good Samaritan laws. It makes sense in those circumstances but basically what happened was the heroes getting sued and prosecuted for moving a non-responsive to the side of the road to avoid them getting hit by traffic.

That sounds ridiculous but that's literally an example from China where they don't have those protections. People suing helpful bystanders and arguing that them helping is them taking on responsibility.

Now granted, making 9/11 look like a scheduled demolition (don't crack wise conspiracy nuts) well stretches beyond what those exemptions might be able to cover, BUT, the heroes could get leniency if they can prove that they were trying to take the fight out of the city but the villain was refusing to be taken away from where they could harm civilians.

Man of Steel supes would have a hard time pulling that one off but the actual big blue boyscout would have ZERO trouble getting any legal consequences mitigated this way due to his outstanding record of public service outside of the fights. He probably ASKS the judge to bring the charges to create an opportunity to issue a public apology whenever something like this arises.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

“Mr. Sansweet didn't ask to be saved. Mr. Sansweet didn't want to be saved. And the injury he received from Mr. Incredible's ‘actions,’ so-called, causes him daily pain…”

It’s this scene—dark as the implications may be—that really drives the point home.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

Nah lmao. If the daily pain is so bad he can just kill himself again. And if he doesn't wanna die anymore, then good job Mr Incredible.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

The whole plot of the Captain America Civil War movie was built on the impact of collateral damage. For another franchise, The Watchmen movie was full of super hero atrocities and even the destruction of entire cities.

[–] MotoAsh 22 points 3 weeks ago

Ehh, I'd say the MCU largely ignored the problem and barely scratched the surface in Civil War. Though The Watchmen did a pretty solid job, given the crazy power levels of some of them.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 weeks ago

I mean, Watchmen is a criticism of the superhero genre.
It deliberately goes against established tropes.

[–] drunkpostdisaster 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Only the subject got dropped in favor of a personal drama between heroes. Honestly, they low keyed made Zemo the good guy.

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[–] tomkatt 17 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I really like Marion G. Harmon’s Wearing the Cape series for this. Hero teams are governmentally regulated, and state or federally mandated, and have to work with local authorities whenever possible, often acting as first responders specifically regarding super villain events. They’re required to plan and mitigate collateral damage. Heroing is literally their job and they have standard and on-call hours, as well as patrols and the like.

Socially heroes and villains are treated kind of like celebrities, and there are sort of unwritten rules about no killing, and no going after civilian identities or people’s families outside of costume as that’s grounds for both villains and heroes to look the other way regarding the aforementioned “No killing” rule.

With the knowledge that villains are hard to impossible to fully stop, emphasis exists on imprisonment and rehabilitation, and over the course of the series some villains and heroes end up changing sides.

There’s one hero in the series who is a federal agent with the ability to replicate clones of himself and is embedded in most hero teams, as well as being secret service, generalized security, and informant as all clones have the knowledge of the rest. Nobody he works with outside of the President of the U.S. even knows how many of him are out there.

On top of this, besides the typical hero teams, there are more “B grade” teams that are not specifically super heroes but act as emergency responders and construction crews for both hero events and fights as well as generalized incidents, and things like heroes without borders that act as global humanitarian aid on a volunteer basis, similar to Doctors Without Borders.

Vigilantes are frowned upon, and can end up liable for crimes as they’re not sanctioned to use their powers to fight.

It’s a very interesting series, and deals with a lot of “real world” consequences of super heroics, including long term injury and death, PTSD and other trauma, and the impact of things like super powered terrorism and extremist groups, as well as anti-super sentiment.

——

Besides that series, I’d also recommend the web serial “Worm” by Wildbow (John McCrae), but that one’s a doozy, both in terms of content (it only goes from bad to worse and things never really get better) and length (it’s absurdly long, maybe equivalent in length to 15-20 full length novels, broken up into fairly long chapters and sections).

[–] MotoAsh 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Dang, you've definitrly sold me on that. I'm going to have to check it out. and Worm. Bad to worse sounds quite accurate in a mortal world with sups. lol

[–] tomkatt 12 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Worm is exactly the kind of chaos that would exist with supers. Attempted mitigation and control, but those with selfish interests and villains often coming out on top, much like those in power and wealth in the real world. WtC has a lighter perspective to tell its story, but Worm is straight up “what if the most horrible person you can think of could also kill with a glance/touch/etc. With no consequence?” And worse. Here there be monsters, quite literally, and humanity is losing the battle.

It’s an absolutely incredible series and I’ve read the whole thing twice at this point, but it’s often very depressing, and the bad can be really bad.

If you want to read Worm there are web scrapers online that can convert it to an ebook format for easier reading, rather than needing to browse the parahumans site.

[–] roguetrick 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

If you want to read Worm there are web scrapers online that can convert it to an ebook format for easier reading, rather than needing to browse the parahumans site.

It's on library Genesis. No need to reinvent the wheel.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Worm is one of the few works I've seen with a lengthy, and justified, trigger warning list. For all the authors works, really. Heavy on bio-horror.

https://booktriggerwarnings.com/Worm_by_John_%22Wildbow%22_McCrae

The ending paragraph for Worm hits HARD, and I don't recommend reading the epilogue immediately after it for that reason (it's really more of a prologue for the sequel anyway)

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago (11 children)

IIRC Marvel has handwaved this through an actual government agency who's job is to fix shit quick. Department of Damage Control IIRC, very steeped in realist humor, and I mean actual school of realism not cult of "wahmenz in super hero movies is unrealistic!"

[–] MotoAsh 8 points 3 weeks ago

I would say it was commendable, but they ignore it completely when convenient and Civil War barely even scratched the surface of the concept in an actually story-impacting way.

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[–] skyler 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Invincible handles consequences pretty well.

One example: At one point Atom Eve uses her powers to turn an empty lot into a playground. But it turns out

spoilerthe lot was empty because the ground was unstable. So the playground collapses and injures several people.

[–] MotoAsh 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Yea, Invincible is better than a lot in at least approaching the topic, though I didn't include it because the Global Defence Agency Cecil directs fixes things on a supernatural level. They magically fix up all sorts of things and magically make convincing cover stories, like the house blowing up like a freaking nuke as just a gas leak and the like.

Still nice that they're covering the topic, at least. It's so, SO much worse in the shows that just ignore it. Invincible does a good "meet in the middle": It's not really any big plot point of the show, but they also don't ignore the problems.

[–] ichbinjasokreativ 8 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

To their defense, the MCU kind of made a whole movie addressing exactly that, back when it was still really good

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Watch The Boys, it addresses collateral damage.

“Fuck supes”

[–] MotoAsh 5 points 3 weeks ago

Yea, The Boys is good shit, at least if the crassitude doesn't throw people off.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

George R. R. Martin edited a terrific series called Wild Card that is really well grounded. The premise is an alien virus that gives people random mutations and some of them are horrific (the Jokers) but some get fantastic powers (the Aces).

It's pretty gritty and 'realistic' like they really go deep into how the various powers would realistically affect people and be used.

I really liked it up until

Tap for spoilerone of the authors decided that ALL of the abilities and powers were all just forms of telekenesis , really sucked all the fun out of it!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

This is also addressed in Hancock (2008).

[–] toynbee 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Chronicle probably doesn't exactly fit your description, but is an attempt at a more grounded look at superpeople.

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[–] GeneralEmergency 4 points 3 weeks ago

"Sorry I let Dr Evil detonate a nuke in the city centre. Wouldn't want to cause a mess"

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[–] [email protected] 67 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

This is basically the setup for The Boys (except instead of a car it's a person)

[–] stufkes 26 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

If it weren't for that opening I would not watch the show. Had no idea what it was about, never read the comics. Just saw a video on why Homelander is a great villain and I went to check it out. After that scene it was just "oh wow. There are stakes!"

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

And instead of actually trying to perform a public service, the superhero is

spoilerLooking for drugs

[–] taiyang 33 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Insurance companies are benevolent enough to cover that, right? Right?

[–] [email protected] 54 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

"Act of God", get fucked. Also we raised your monthly fee by 50% because, based on previous events, you're more likely than others to have you car Hulk-smashed.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

"Act of God"

No, that's just if Thor or Loki smashes your car.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

They pay that out once begrudgingly and then add "act of mutant" to the list

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

points at a Hawkeye arrow in the windshield

Ugh, fine adds "act of normal guy who is just weirdly good with a bow and arrow" to the list

[–] taiyang 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Insurance must be through the roof the same way it's gone up the last few years because of higher accident rates globally.

[–] Brunbrun6766 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I think super heros would probably just crash the insurance market

[–] taiyang 5 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah they just stop insuring folks, a real problem lately with Florida and California.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

I once played at Iron Man knockoff for a super hero ttrpg. The source of his wealth was shorting insurance companies.

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[–] emil_98 12 points 3 weeks ago

A few years ago i had to get my upper lip sewed back on after a mountain bike accident and the insurance still has not paid for the surgery because a cosmetic surgeon was the only person at the hospital who could do it

[–] Zoomboingding 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

This is the plot of Spiderman Homecoming

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[–] yamanii 18 points 3 weeks ago

I really like My Hero Academia for being grounded like that with superheroes having to register and stuff, doing public good beyond fighting, and having Vigilantes that still want to help out but they aren't scouted, because they couldn't get into a proper hero education program on a great spin-off that I would argue is better than the main manga.

[–] drunkpostdisaster 14 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Or when it hits and does absolutely nothing.

[–] CrowAirbrush 8 points 3 weeks ago

He just throws it on top of your coworkers cars, so now you can't even carpool the day after.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Wouldn't they come up with some kind of insurance plan for the supers?

Like "Hey the Hulk just used my car as a pair of boxing gloves. Am I covered?"

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Seeing as how the cops can cause collateral damage and be completely unaccountable, yeah, no. You ain't getting shit.

(We should totally end qualified immunity though.)

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[–] buzz86us 5 points 3 weeks ago

The thing I wonder is why people want to live in NYC in the marvel universe

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