Part of the free-market attitude though is that you should be allowed to buy policy, so in that regard it's consistent, you just have to account for corruption in the cost of doing business.
this post was submitted on 20 May 2024
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'Mericuh fuck yeah!
This is how all capitalist markets progress, which is why I get annoyed when folks try to talk about this as though it is hypocritical. There is nothing hypocritical about a capitalist attempting to stifle innovation and competition for the advancement of their own personal wealth. This is what capitalism is about.
I think that what you're saying is that actions of hypocrites cannot be considered hypocritical since it's their nature to be hypocrites. It's all a bit circular, isn't it?
I think that in the case of Mr. Musk, the issue is that he has been seen as an innovator not just as a capitalist for much of his time in the spotlight. For 2018 Musk, this declaration would have been hypocritical. For 2024 Musk, whatever, why are we still listening to this clown?
No, not quite. I’m saying musk has never believed in the free market in his life and has never argued in good faith. All of those wealthy types know exactly what they are doing. They publicly embrace a fake ideal of free market economics up until they no longer have to put up the facade.
I’m saying musk has never believed in the free market
Correct. No politican, economist or, indeed, capitalist "believes" in the (so-called) "free market" - they all know perfectly well that it's a fairy tale designed to justify them and their cronies parasitizing at everybody and everything else's expense. The regime that made Musk's billions possible - the Apartheid-regime - knew perfectly well that the "free market" was a big, fat lie all the way back in 1948. That's why they built all the public infrastructure that enriched white people's lives (including Elon's) while repressing the majority of South Africans into becoming the glorified indentured labour that made Elon's daddy rich.
It's no different than "hearts & minds," "spreading civilization" or Cinderella's glass slipper. They all know it and they have always all known it.
I’m saying musk has never believed in the free market in his life and has never argued in good faith.
isn't this the definition of hypocrisy?
I suppose you’re right, it is. I am not articulating myself properly here. Let me re-frame this.
Every time we chalk things up to a bad actor being hypocritical, we are taking our eye off of the ball. The problems we are facing are not individual actors that are simply acting hypocritical in the moment. We are, in reality, dealing with a much larger issue. The economic structure is filled with grifters, liars, and exploiters at the top because that is how it is best leveraged.
So when articles are written calling some billionaire a hypocrite, we are not accomplishing anything. I would argue it is largely a game of masturbatory whack-a-mole to make ourselves feel better, because we cannot fix this system with random callouts and the (extremely) rare removal of “bad apples.”
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It's not what free market is though. Which is what capitalists pretend they are for.
The "Free Market" is a fantasy originally pushed by Think Tanks funded by the Koch Brothers.
All the great things we're told about The Free Market^TM^ only ever work in highly competitive markets with no barriers to entry were it's easy for any Jane, Jack or Joe to enter the Market and start competing with the rest: thinks like soap or teddy bears.
As soon as something as simple as Land-ownership gets involved (for example, for your store in a prime location) it stops being perfectly competitive and all of a sudden you get feedback loops were the more money somebody does the more money somebody is capable of doing, meaning that first mover advantage is close to unassailable (and what we see in the modern world is that the ones with the biggest first mover advantages inherited them).
The Free Market^TM^ is really just an ideological excuse from neoliberals to convince people that the power of the vote should be indirectly weakenned (sure, you can vote, but the State, which is controlled by voters' elected representatives, can't regulate or otherwise "intervene in the market", so de facto the vote loses most of its power) so that the Power of Money can do whatever it wants because "the Free Market knows best". Dig through the technochratic pseudo-Economic mumbo-jumbo and what you find is a ideology to weaken Democracy and replace it by Oligarchy.
Yep. Democracy dies when regulation does, basically.
That's why you work to make sure that there is competition. I'm pretty sure it shouldn't come as a shock that a EV manufacturer doesn't want to have to compete.
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I don't mind bashing Musk for a second, but as far as I know China follows a startup mentality with electric cars - the government supports the industry so they can sell cars below their actual price, and once they killed all their competition they can increase.
There's no fair winning against this policy
We have 10 trillion dollars more GDP. If China wants to declare open season on EV's there's no reason we can't beat them at this game. This policy is meant purely to prevent our auto industry from having to innovate like a competitive market would force. Nope we're going to have 50k E-SUVs that spy on us and fall apart. And we'll like it. Because they also passed legislation in my state to ban the sale of new gas cars in 6 years. And the mass transit system is. not. ready.
You seem to think the ICE cars are not spying on you nor falling apart.
No, I'm under no illusions. I'm just not happy at the lack of competition.
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I would think that the winning move would be to impose enough tariffs to offset the foreign government subsidies, yet still promote some competition.
The government could also 100 percent fund battery research; Put a government owned company out there to make a floor in the market (5 person hatchback with minimum amenities); Give us more than 7,500 in EV rebates on a select few models; Change CAFE standards so bigger isn't automatically better; etc...
There's a lot we could do. We instead chose the most reductive and protectionist route possible. And even then Volvo (Owned by Greely) says they may be able to get a refund on the entire tariff because of the other models they produce in the US.
Definitely need more subsidies or grants for domestic research. Though I don’t see the government owned company idea working mainly due to how capitalism is implemented here. The government tends to not directly compete with private entities.
Fully agree with clamping down (via higher taxes or something similar) on the giant vehicles and the loopholes they can abuse today.
Oh yeah, Americans would riot before buying basic goods from the government. Still it's something that would be legal and is an option. Even floating the idea seriously could cause the auto makers to remember how to make those minimum amenity hatchbacks.
And the US supports the oil and gas industry. The government supports the industry so they can sell gas below its actual price.
Like that time a US state subsidised Tesla with a billion dollar factory in exchange for jobs most of which were never delivered. I bet in China at least they would expect their grant deal to be fulfilled.
I'm not trying to advocate for China, just pointing out how much of Tesla's current position is the result of hand outs (see; carbon credits)
That's free market, alright.
So they're just like Uber. Why didn't they put a 100% tax on them?
"One rule for me, another for thee."
"Businessmen favor free enterprise in general but are opposed to it when it comes to themselves." -- Milton Friedman
Welp that's if for me then, I'm against tariffs on the cheap shit chinese ev's. Anything that piece of shit wants is bad for us.
I understand the sentiment but that logic isn’t a great way to reliably get you closer to truth.
Free markets for me but not for thee
An asshole can be right. China is anti competitive and actively undermining democracies.
Our ev manufacturers need to be put under pressure, but not by fascist regimes and their exploitation of the earth and people.
The US is a democracy? That’s news to me.
Oligarchy. Bought and paid for.
He wants to be free to control the market, sure.
This is why he wants 25% of tesla so badly
Yeah, tariffs aren't going to help Tesla at this point but yeah, he's still a hypocritical jackass.
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