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[Heavy Spoilers] What effect has the Fallout TV show had on the lore? (leminal.space)
submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by [email protected] to c/fallout
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The show is apparently canon. It's not like the All Roads comic, Fallout Tactics, or the Fallout Bible where it's considered flavor materials and only elements of it are later added to the canon.

"We view what’s happening in the show as canon," Bethesda director Todd Howard told Vanity Fair. "That's what's great, when someone else looks at your work and then translates it in some fashion."

https://www.gamesradar.com/is-the-fallout-tv-show-canon-bethesda-games-todd-howard/

The show takes place in 2296 making it the furthest along we've seen the world of Fallout so it might gives us some leads on canon endings of Fallout 3, NV, and 4.

I've only watched through the show once but I am wondering what you felt were significant additions to the canon or lore of Fallout?

Here's some stuff I thought of:

  • We knew there were Vault-Tec brand vaults in Canada following the annexation because of letters found in mailboxes outside of Vault 101 in Fallout 3 but a lot of people assumed this would be limited to major cities. Some people believed the settlement to the north mentioned in The Pitt DLC was a reference to Toronto and thought there might be a vault there. The map in one of the latter episodes seems to suggest there are a lot more vaults up there than people thought.

  • I feel like there were enough references to the situation the Brotherhood of Steel is currently in with the early episodes to suggest what happened to them in the non-isometric games but I'd need to rewatch it to dig deeper. I don't know if there are mentions of their command structure or the Mojave chapter. Either would likely be a giveaway. I don't think the destruction of the Prydwen in Fallout 4 is out of the question. In Fallout 4 Captain Kells talks about the prior construction of airships on the West coast and Scribe Rothchild from Fallout NV mentions a rogue detachment of the Brotherhood of Steel that might be able to fill emerging power vacuums.

  • Even with Shady Sands gone I feel like the NCR might still exist elsewhere. The population of the NCR according to a holotape in Fallout 2 is around 700,000 and with around 30,000 people in Shady Sands I feel like that means there were a lot of people outside this region. Unless this is being retconned. The whiteboard in the show, if I recall correctly, had a note that said the fall of Shady Sands was in 2277 which would have put it during Fallout 3 and before Fallout NV.

  • I think it has finally been confirmed that Vault-Tec kicked off the nuclear war in some way like the cancelled Fallout film from back in the day originally wanted.

  • New Vegas might may have been destroyed. It looks like it isn't lit up and the buildings have been further damaged.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Since you guys know what’s going on, may I ask what’s with the vials the ghoul has to take? I don’t recall that in the games 3, NV and 4…

[–] electric 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I thought it was Med-X. Not sure if addicted or just in constant pain from being a ghoul. Probably needs a constant supply since ghouls are chem-resistant.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I understood they need to take that or they become ferals, that was clear. I thought ferals or non ferals was more of a random thing after a huge exposure to radiation.

[–] electric 6 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Other ghouls need it? I have only watched to episode 3. I guess it's Rad-Away then. Explains why it was orange. I cannot recall a specific source but ferals are created from too much exposure to radiation as a ghoul in the games. Sure you might not die from rads anymore, but it screws with your brain. I guess in the show they stave off the feral-ness by being hooked up Rad-Away constantly instead of avoiding rad baths. Pretty neat.

[–] aaaa 6 points 8 months ago

Yeah this looks like a change in the show. From what we see, ghouls are the result of taking some drug cocktail (which only happened twice in Fallout 4) and ferals are the result of not keeping up with your drugs.

The drugs didn't look like Rad-Away that I've seen.

[–] setsneedtofeed 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

It seems to be a new drug invented for the show. I don’t actually mind it or think it is a retcon. It makes sense that after 200+ years of ghouls existing, somebody figured out a drug to brute force ghouls from turning feral when they otherwise would.

The show doesn’t say that all ghouls constantly need a daily supply of it, just that Goggins does. He is the oldest Ghoul we’ve ever seen, so with that in combination of other factors he probably would have turned long ago but is forcing it back.

That other ghoul was begging for it as he was turning, but that also doesn’t indicate all ghouls constantly need it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That ghoul and the one in Super Duper Mart saying their own names trying to retain their last shred of human consciousness was a nice touch.

It reminded me of Admiral Keyes losing his mind to the Flood in the 2nd Halo book, where he just kept repeating who he was as it stripped his mind away.

[–] setsneedtofeed 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That quick snap from turning relatively normal to feral is something I have to adjust to. Maybe that’s even how it happens in the newer games and I’m just not recalling it, but I always envisioned turning feral to be a much slower and more sporadic process. Like someone falling into worsening dementia over the course of many years, as opposed to a quick turn like in a zombie movie.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

I do agree with your sentiment. I think it should be a more gradual shift to madness. That makes a lot more sense to me, and it's how I always imagined it.

I liked that they are saying their name trying to maintain that last shred of humanity, but they present as more rabid extreme shifts. Like the ghoul that's killed and cannibalized going from having fluent conversations and vivid recollections to screaming his name is a bit much...

I think they should be in a confused and disoriented state like in dementia, and they should be near totally nonverbal by the point they're trying to remember who they even are. If it's caused by an irradiated brain essentially rotting away, then they shouldn't be able to articulate and be reminiscing at that point...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

I am not sure. Considering ghouls are healed from radiation I feel like there would be more noticeable side effects when they take something to reduce their rad level. Though I don't know if there is a Fallout game that talks about a ghoul using something like Rad-X or Radaway.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

I feel like it's similar to FEV exposure where the results are somewhat random. Look at Jason Bright for example. He's a non-feral glowing one.

[–] setsneedtofeed 3 points 8 months ago

I just made another comment further down, but it seems to be an invention for the show. If the idea is that it isn’t needed by all ghouls, but just by those who otherwise would have turned, I think it’s a good addition. Goggins character is already over that threshold of needing it, but that shouldn’t apply to all ghouls.

[–] cikano 8 points 8 months ago

Regarding Vault Tec kicking off the nuclear war, the shadowy figure in that meeting seems heavily implied to be something akin to the enclave

[–] Meuzzin 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

IMHO, it doesn't matter how the show does the lore. Just finished the 7th episode, and I love how they're tieing it all together. Sure it doesn't work chronologically, but it's pretty damn good how they've done it.

As someone who waited outside an Electronics Boutique, at a mall, at 5am to get a copy of "Fallout: A Post Apocalyptic Role-Playing Game", I'm enjoying it. Every Fallout game since that day in 1997, I've loved. Although 76 was a little wonky...

I have ~1400 hours in New Vegas, and ~1300 in FO4. Who knows how many hours in the others, as I didn't use Steam until 12 years ago....

[–] Monotron 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I’m with you, I’m a fan since FO1 dropped in 97. I loved the show. I don’t care about fudged dates or whatever. The adaptation was solid as hell and I’m hungry for more

[–] p5yk0t1km1r4ge 1 points 7 months ago

This about the 2277 shady sands thing?

[–] dejected_warp_core 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

I haven't played all of the more recent games. I'm much more familiar with 1, 2, and New Vegas^1^. Some additions I found interesting that might already be covered in game lore:

  • The day-to-day of the Brotherhood was interesting, if not bleak. The characterization of the members in the Brotherhood of Steel hierarchy would have fit right in to Fallout 2.
  • T60/T61 Power armor, despite being ridiculously overpowered, is full of logistical, tactical, and technical drawbacks, complete with a weak point. At the same time, we get a really good idea of how much a person's strength is boosted while piloting one.
  • Turns out that a radbear is a decent match for an un-prepared T60 pilot. Also, radroaches are big problem for a T60's soft-spots.
  • Stimpaks are no longer hand-waved away as miraculously adding HP back. They really do impart some impossibly amazing healing qualities. Somehow.
  • A fully functioning vault is actually a very big place that can somehow manufacture all manner of foods, clothes, and other engineering materials from raw materials, for at least 200 years. But farming is still a thing. And yet, a failed water chip is still a death sentence ^2^.
  • New Vaults with completely new, screwed up, experiential designs.
  • Terminal hacking really is like that in-universe, and no longer a contrivance for a video game.
  • Mr. Handy and Matt Berry are a match made in heaven and I hope he voices all appearances of that robot from here on out.
  • Apparently, 200+ years of grinding armed combat gives you VATS superpowers.


This show also kinda/sorta shows that a game with radically different starting points make for interesting storytelling in this setting. BoS squire, Enclave scientist, Vault dweller, and Ghoul wanderer all look like compelling backgrounds now.

^1^ - Yup, I skipped Tactics. But I did play Fallout Shelter for a bit, so there's no accounting for taste.

^2^ - I never did beat Fallout 1. I'm pretty sure Vault 33 is never going to logistically recover from this.

[–] setsneedtofeed 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I have gone through a rollercoaster of opinions about Goggins shooting the weak spot on the T-60.

It was cool in the moment, but on reflection it makes no sense. A design and specific manufacturing flaw that stayed identical between multiple radically different designs is strange. It’s like a guy who drove an M-48 Patton tank talking about design flaws in the M1 Abrams.

But then I thought, Goggins did have that bandolier of different specialist ammo. What if he only had one extremely potent anti-armor round? He could make up some nonsense about the armor having a weak spot, shoot it, and then the BOS soldiers would be freaked out thinking that he had an advantage.

Which is a lot of head canon, but I like it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

And was this weak spot not present when fighting Maximus in Filly?.. Was Maximus wearing a different armor set, or was this a plot hole??

[–] setsneedtofeed 3 points 8 months ago

You’re absolutely right that the weak spot would be the same. Maximus was wearing T-60, and the design flaw was from the T-45s and apparently never fixed anyway.

[–] dejected_warp_core 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I'm with you on this. In general I dislike nonsense in an otherwise grounded story. An effective bluff would have worked a lot better, both for lore, and for Cooper's character. Having him just go for the lights and mysteriously disable everyone's armor in the dark, ala Batman, would have also built Cooper up as more resourceful and sly.

But this scene in particular just screams "rule of cool" to me, and just further cements Cooper's terrifying reputation. 200 years in the wastes and he's practically an indestructible aimbot, and can hip-shoot a deadly accurate hole in damn near anything. They needed something to put him on even footing with power armor while sticking to the "man in black" gunslinger trope. And I have to say, it works.

Edit: I completely forgot. Cooper is, at his core, an actor. He doesn't even have that accent in the flashbacks, except for when he's on camera. One could argue that he got lost in the role some time back, but maybe he's just playing the part to survive. Considering this, a really damn-good bluff would absolutely be a better character moment than the other options.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

The most mind blowing piece of new lore given by the show to me is that radroaches have teeth. Professor Head mentions them gaining incisors.

[–] dejected_warp_core 2 points 8 months ago

Yeah, someone really thought that one through. Chitin is only so tough and doesn't work on edible things at large scale - what's the sharpest lobster claw you've ever seen? Adapting to grow mineralized mouth parts ("teeth") is one of a few things that makes giant scavenger bugs plausible.^1^

I hope that munching on some power armor is the only point where that is relevant to the story.

^1^ - Lungs or gills are needed too since insect respiration is mostly passive and takes advantage of a bug's small size. FWIW, radscorpions are actually more plausible thanks to an organ known as book lungs.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

I don't think New Vegas is destroyed, considering they show it at the end and also featured Robert House himself in the board meeting scene. All the damage is just... How it is because it's built in the ruins of Las Vegas. That shot felt more like foreshadowing where things will take place in the next season.

But they either fudged the timeline on that whiteboard, or are going to re-write the events of New Vegas to not have the NCR involved. There was some dialogue that alluded to the war over Hoover Dam having already happened, though so I am leaning toward the dates just being fudged. Especially if Bethesda itself is involved in the show, because Todd Howard notoriously doesn't give a fuck about continuity.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Do you think Robert House appearing in the meeting is that significant? I feel like it kind of just lets on that he knew in advance something was going on.

[–] p5yk0t1km1r4ge 1 points 7 months ago

Ok but if NV is destroyed , we're going to have to accept it.

[–] setsneedtofeed 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Not sure if typo in your opening, but the chalkboard said the fall of Shady Sands was in 2277, not 2077.

The Great War was in 2077.

Interestingly, 2277 is also the year of the First Battle Of Hoover Dam, so the fall might indicate a decline after the battle over a number of years. This might point to the canon ending of FNV being not NCR friendly.

I don’t make much of Vegas visual since we saw the city during the day. It will naturally look less impressive.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Not sure if typo in your opening, but the chalkboard said the fall of Shady Sands was in 2277, not 2077.

Yeah I made the correction.

I don't think we really have a true indication of the canon ending of Fallout New Vegas. The official game guide for Fallout New Vegas talks about how the economy of the NCR has fallen out of balance and commoners are beginning to struggle with the rise of Brahmin Barons and Agri-Barons. This combined with the upkeep costs following the Treaty of New Vegas really seem to depict the NCR being strained.

The fall of Shady Sands could mean a shift of power out of California or a bunch of other things.

I feel like the writers would want to avoid pigeonholing themselves in the first season.

[–] electric -5 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Shit, I thought it wasn't canon. Actors said so in one of the interviews I watched. Sucks the writers decided to shit on New Vegas, the show had really great writing otherwise. I'll just pretend it's not canon anyways like I do Rise of Skywalker and that Discovery show. 🫡

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Why do you think they shit on New Vegas?

Do you have a source for the actor interview? I am wondering if they said something more akin to "it's not based on existing material". I feel like I recall that being a point of discussion in the past

[–] electric 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It was one of those "X answer questions from the internet" videos from I think Wired or whatever media outlet. Obviously the actors aren't the ones making the story so when the question of "is it canon?" came up they just said it wasn't necessarily game canon but "a story within the world".

I'd call nuking Shady Sands before the events of New Vegas shitting on the game but apparently one of the people behind the show clarified NV is still canon... I don't know what the situation is anymore.

[–] Zron 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If you look back at the blackboard, it never actually shows that the nuke dropped in ‘77 just that shady sands fell, and then an arrow pointing to a nuke going off.

That can mean a lot of things. Rome fell over the course of decades and centuries. We also see that shady sands is the “original” capital. So fall of shady sands could refer to a political event, such as starting a costly war with Caesars Legion over a damn,that led to a new seat of government, and then sometime later the city was nuked.

We also don’t know how old Lucy or Maximus are supposed to be in the show. Is lucy a fresh faced 18 year old, or mid 20s? That kind of changes when the bomb would have dropped. Max was clearly very young, maybe 5 when the bomb dropped. So if he’s 20 in the show, then that puts the bomb dropping sometime during 2281, which now lines up with new Vegas. If Lucy and Max are older, in their mid 20s, then yes it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. But we also have to remember that they should be pretty young. Max is a fresh recruit out of boot camp that has been with the BOS since he was small enough to fit in a fridge. I think it’s safe to say that he’d be trained up as soon as possible. So he’s very likely only 18 to 20 when we first see him.

The same applies for Lucy, she has a vague memory as a child of shady sands. If she’s 25, then that means the bomb had to have dropped in ‘77 but if she’s 18, then it could have dropped as late as 2283, assuming she’s a normal human that doesn’t start being able to retain long term memories until she’s 4 or so. I think it’s likely that she’s supposed to be 18 or 20 in the show, as the first time we see her she’s getting married off. A vault with a limited population would want to encourage people to have children as young as is morally feasible for them, to ensure that there is always a new generation that is well trained to take over.

I was confused and a little upset when I first saw 2277 on the board too. But then I took a nap and really thought about what that means for the story of both the show and new Vegas. The first things I thought of were the above. And now that I’ve sat with it for a while, it also strikes me that the NCR was an entire country with a similar landmass to modern day Germany, and likely well over a million inhabitants. They were not a city state. Losing one city would be a national tragedy and a major blow to any country, but it wouldn’t lead to an entire collapse. Maybe there would be a period of breakdown around the city that could go on for an extended period if surrounding cities weren’t equipped to help. But, the country as a whole wouldn’t just crumble to nothing because one city was destroyed.

[–] setsneedtofeed 3 points 8 months ago

2277 is the date of the First Battle Of Hoover Dam. If the war with the Legion went poorly in canon, then history would look back at that battle as the start of the fall.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I don't think there was ever going to be any doubt that Fallout New Vegas was canon. It's just a situation where it's weird we didn't hear about it in Fallout New Vegas.

[–] Monotron 5 points 8 months ago

Homie, this stuff is all pretend. Relax

[–] Dasus 4 points 8 months ago

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/fallout/amazons-fallout-tv-director-says-hes-not-trying-to-please-fans-legions-get-mad-at-him-before-realising-he-actually-lost-a-year-of-his-life-to-fallout-3-himself/

As reported by T3, Nolan was chatting about his approach to the upcoming show when he remarked: "I don't think you really can set out to please the fans of anything, or please anyone other than yourself." Deliberately trying to make a Fallout TV series that would please fans of the games, said Nolan, would be a "fool's errand."