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Protesting misogyny through misandry - what a fabulous idea! Next, how about a protest against childhood obesity by starving a couple of kids to death?
Doing a shitty thing to protest a different shitty thing only multiplies the amount of shit instead of reducing it...
I'm not really a fan of the whole "we'll be intolerant so you know what it feels like" but it's also the only way I can really know what it feels like as a white man from a middle class family. I'm on the fence on this one.
They should just make it a small art exhibit out front, then 2 bathrooms, the mens is normal, with some basic art, but the women's bathroom has a bar and cocktail lounge and the extra amenities. Then the business wouldn't be excluding men, it would just be providing them a different experience in the bathroom which I feel like they'd have a much better time defending in court. But it also seems like this whole thing was done as a form of activism and it looks like one of the intents is for this business to close down so they can be martyrs.
You don't need to know what it feels like. Trying to fight intolerance with intolerance isn't successful.
You don’t need to know what it feels like.
no, but it can help
Trying to fight intolerance with intolerance isn’t successful.
blanket statements like this are rarely helpful or true
I think downvoters have forgotten the paradox of tolerance. That said, intolerance should be applied at the individual level (ie don't tolerate a nazi because they are a nazi), not by group (like the scenario this thread is about did).
The more interesting thing to me is... They were modeling a thing that was popular in the 60s, according to the article. It's an art display to protest something from 60+ years ago. A lot of the people who would go to such an exhibit weren't alive, and certainly weren't adults at the time.
There are surely problems that women face today but I don't see how this helps shine any light on that or does anything at all for it.
I think it's fine as a limited art piece, but sexism is sexism and should not be perpetrated against any gender in a serious way.
That's easy.
For starters:
Go to China. Go to the middle east. Go to Zimbabwe. Go to the wrong parts of Brazil or South Africa.
Hell, go to Northern Ireland.
It's an idiotic thing to state that white people are not and have never been oppressed.
Plenty of down-votes but strangely no responses.
I mean, overwhelmingly people aren't racially discriminated against for being white so I'm not sure what it is you're trying to back up.
Sure it happens. The one that's closest to home for me in that list is Northern Ireland. White Catholics here were abused, but it was by white people so nothing to do with the colour of their skin. Honestly such a terrible example with absolutely no understanding for historical context.
I've spent non-trivial time in the Middle East. Sure I'm not at the same social class as Arabs there but I was sure fucking glad I wasn't brown.
China, wot? Yeah people stare at me but nobody was nasty. If anything I was a novelty.
White people in South Africa were gonna get what they were gonna get in a post apartheid world where they pillaged and oppressed until quite recently. That doesn't make it right but it makes it inevitable.
They're all very poorly thought out, edge case examples with the exception of Zimbabwe unless I'm missing others that I'm not aware of.
The velvet-clad lounge - which contains some of the museum's most-acclaimed works, from Picasso to Sidney Nolan - has been open since 2020.
If the artist had opened an exhibit of her own work only to women, I could defend that as artistic expression. However, this is simply a museum being sexist and then saying "It's just art bro!"
With that said, apparently the museum is privately funded. I tend to think that this ought to mean it can be sexist if that's what the people running it want (as a matter of principle, not as a matter of Australian law).
I tend to think that this ought to mean it can be sexist if that’s what the people running it want
IDK, I'd see issues with a cafe saying 'No colored people allowed'.
I read in another thread that the women-only rule was an art installation and they were happy when the guy sued, because it created the publicity they were looking for.
The problem with letting private businesses discriminate is that it often leads to total discrimination. A single racist towing company would be a huge problem. A racist grocery store could be the only one in town. Sure you might not go to a racist bar, but what if the fire or police chief frequents that place?
That if about the police chief is doing some heavy lifting.
Hardly, there's a rich history of using police to enforce racism. It's still happening today in some areas.
That's my point.... it's more likely that they are, than aren't. Thus the "if they are going to the racist bar" is doing a lot of heavy lifting
I'd argue that the plaintiff and the court case are all part of the exhibit.
Sometimes I believe women’s only spaces need to exist for some instances of women who experienced trauma to feel safe and be able to start their healing without their nervous systems taking over.
However, this doesn’t sound like that. This sounds like exclusion.
Idk how I feel about this. I will say however, any time I've ever seen feminist principles be applied exclusionary, it's always additionally accompanied by TERF shit. It's a very quick pipeline from "no boys allowed" to "no trans allowed". The lines dividing can be so blurry... I don't think it's a good mindset.
I'll bring this up only once, because not only do I not want to deal with backlash, I also dont want to stand in the way of progress or hurt anyone who is trans, but: Notice how society mostly freaks out about Trans Women, and Trans Men are an afterthought in that outrage. Its because Misandry is playing a not insignificant part in this. A key thing about transphobes is they arent seeing Trans Women as Women, and its their ideas on how MEN are that are informing their vitrol. So you are seeing those two go hand in hand for a reason
Edit: Fuck it, I need to clarify: Trans Women are WOMEN, Trans Men are MEN
Yup, trans men are "poor deluded women and victims of the patriarchy" and trans women are "predators trying to invade women's spaces". And that's if trans men are even thought of at all.
Yeah that was the allusion I was leaning towards
From their website:
The lounge is a tremendously lavish space in our museum in which women can indulge in decadent nibbles, fancy tipples, and other ladylike pleasures—hosted and entertained by the fabulous butler. And as is always the case with Kirsha’s dinners and feasts, you are a participant in what she sees as the art itself, part of a living installation. Any and all ladies are welcome.
Any and all ladies doesn't sound like they are excluding people that may not have been born female. It sounds, at least to me, that it includes said person group.
I'm gonna start a "Dogs Only" exhibit and it's just a bunch of delicious hotdogs hanging from easily-accessible strings and shit.
Don't worry, I've got one for cats too. Same thing.
A Dutch artist made a theater production concerning some dogs on a stage just doing their thing.
He called it 'going to the dogs' and it sold out and he managed to get a subsidy from a cultural fund for it.
One newspaper complained that the script was rather, woof woof, monotone.
Perhaps women should take on The Melbourne Club next and see how quickly men change their mind on the subject?
I understand the guy's argument in this case seems to be the fact he bought a ticket at the same price as a woman but was excluded from one of the exhibits, but the overarching point of sexual discrimination works both ways.