No one is. Not the American public, not anyone on the planet. Not even Trump (since he makes shit up as he goes). There is no plan. It'll just be mass insanity, driven by an insane egomaniac.
this post was submitted on 09 Apr 2024
205 points (92.9% liked)
United States | News & Politics
7228 readers
9 users here now
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
This is being discussed as though it's normal. It's not.
I'm just sitting here thinking how everyone acknowledges the necessity of a third choice, and in their next breath decry anyone who even mentions they might not be willing to hold their noses this time and vote for the two establishment parties.
It's so obvious that articles like this want us to continue as we always have, never even mentioning that there is another way. One could surmise it's the media's own subconcious bias, but i think I'm more cases the media really prefers we think of elections this way. The past 20 years of massive media conglomeration allowed by both parties shows they stand to benefit regardless of who wins, as long as it's one of the two. So that's all they ever mention. I'm a time where it's never been more clear we needto move away from the two parties dragging us to the right.
I can hear the replies now, and sure; it's true that if you vote for a different party it won't win them the presidency. It's a pie in the sky ideal no one sane thinks could happen.
But how complicit is the media in this truth? How much of the supposedly free democracy is lost by the media's deliberate omission of other options? We know the power of media to elevate politicians up to public consciousness. We all watched media make Trump the nominee in 2016.
The establishment parties know the power of media and use it constantly to advertise. This article is no different. It is a farce. After keeping Trump in the public eye constantly, the media, crowning their own presidential candidate, then demands we not vote for him, but for their choice. All while keeping mum on the fact either choice won't hurt them much. All silent on the fact there are other candidates on the ballot. In a time of more core dissatisfaction than ever. Regardless of our politics, it's obvious what theirs are and they receive concrete benefits by artificially narrowing our free system down to two bad options for us, and only wins for them.
How many of us know by heart the old adage "voting third party is throwing your vote away"? Where did we learn this? How can we hold that true while also believing our democracy is free and true?
Ranked choice voting is the solution. So long as we use first past the post voting, voting for a third party candidate is a waste.
This can be changed by being active and supporting progressive candidates on the state and local levels.
This is the answer. Don't vote for third party candidates, by that point it's too late.
Vote for candidates in the primaries that are adamant about voting reform/ranked choice voting. Normalize it at state and local levels. Then, it will become a viable option at the national level.
This can happen quickly with the right advocacy and the right candidates, but good candidates are indeed hard to come by.
and the right candidates, but good candidates are indeed hard to come by.
Ya, I sometimes encourage running for office along with my encouragement to vote. It seems mostly only shitty people run for office, this needs to change.
Kinda goes with being rich. Which is pretty much a requirement to run for small offices in most of the country (pay is shit) and definitely requires to run in major races (advertising and organizing is expensive). So only rich dudes run, and you generally have to be some type of agile to get rich in the first place (there are exceptions, but not many).
load more comments
(1 replies)
Speaking of state and local, that is where change is going to happen with ranked choice voting. State and local governments can move much faster than the federal government to institute ranked choice voting. Because states have a high degree of autonomy on holding their own elections, they can prove that ranked choice is a viable option for local, state, and maybe even federal offices.
I love ranked choice too! But that's going to be a long long fight. I'm just talking about the system we have now, and the media's obvious interests in keeping their party candidates foremost in voter's minds
No, ranked choice has serious issues and won't likely fix the issue. I'd prefer to avoid citing specific alternatives because they all come with their own biases and trade-offs. One example of surprising results is the Burlington, VT mayoral election, which is contentious because the winner was neither the plurality or majority winner.
That said, I think it's a case of "don't let perfect be the enemy of better." If RCV is on the ballot, I'll vote for it. But I'd very much prefer one of the other many alternatives because I think it doesn't resolve the spoiler effect satisfactorily and can have very surprising results.
I highly recommend looking into the various alternatives and reading up on condorcet winners before jumping on the RCV bandwagon.
Regardless I think an even better solution is to focus on fixing gerrymandering. I think we should consider proportional representation in the House, which should get more third parties elected and give us a real shot at breaking the two party system there. I think we'll always have one of the two major parties in the White House just based on voter demographics, but changing at least on house of Congress should force the President to actually work across party lines instead of waiting until their party gets a majority. Having Democrats and Republicans need to cater to the greens, libertarians, etc would be awesome.
multi-member districts would help a lot, too.
How would that work?
Imagine picking the top 3 candidates instead of only one.
Combine multiple districts into one, for example.
Immediately makes things more purple, and closer in proportion to the region
Wouldn't you just get more candidates from the same party? It might complicate gerrymandering, but I think it would still happen.
I'd much rather have proportional representation, so you'd vote in whatever primary you want to select candidates, then vote for your preferred party, and then seats are assigned based on percentage of votes won. That should work well for the House at least.
load more comments
(1 replies)
I said it once say again IF WE ALL VOTED THRID PARTY THEN THEY WOULD WIN! Unfortunately we can't get all the poor and working class on the same page to accomplish that. So we need rank choice voting it's the only way. Also remove the electoral college while we are at it.
You could start with congress members. Or your city council. Prove a 3rd party can win small battles first.
Where we exactly we need to start and Bernie Sanders said that exact thing. If we want to fix society we must take it from the bottom up. Take over towns and cities until we are national.
“voting third party is throwing your vote away”? Where did we learn this?
It comes from an understanding of reality in a first past the post voting system. If you want a third option, focus on ranked choice voting and minimizing corporate control of media rather than promoting a losing strategy.
How many of us know by heart the old adage "voting third party is throwing your vote away"? Where did we learn this?
Through a basic understanding of the First Past the Post election mechanism. Voting third party does not help move the establishment parties left, it only hurts the left. The best thing for the left to do is turn up every single election (especially local elections) to vote D down the whole ticket en masse, until the Republican party is defunct. Additionally, voting for progressives in the primary.
The only way out of "voting third party is throwing your vote away" is to move away from FPTP. That means showing up and holding your nose until we elect enough candidates who support Ranked Choice.
This is truth. The old adage about throwing your vote away isn't exaggeration, or even opinion. In a First Past the Post election, is just math. And math doesn't care about anyone's sense of moral righteousness.
until the Republican party is defunct
Everything is true except this. It's good to have at least two healthy parties competing for voters. So often, single party states allow the dominate party to get lazy because it no longer has to work hard to get votes.
At least ideally, the end result would be an electorate that is further to the left and Republican party that is not as crazy conservative. Overton window shifting and all that.
You misunderstand me. Once the Republican party is defunct, the Democratic party can fill in as the center-right neo-liberal party while a progressive party can emerge to the left. Two healthy parties.
I think your misreading the US electorate as being much further to the left than it actually is. What we have now is a fairly delicate dance between the two major parties, attempting to suck up various constituencies. It's resulted in an almost perfect equilibrium nationally. What you're suggesting leaves an enormous group of ex-Republican voters without a political home. In that scenario, the Democrats would move right to appeal to ex-Republicans for political advantage and the Progressive Party would move to the center to appeal to center-left voters. You would land more or less where we are now in the end.
Eh, the further left portion of the electorate has much lower turnout that the further right, largely due to apathy toward the centrism of Democrats. I think you're right that a Democrat/Progressive landscape would result in both moving right, but I think the Progressive would be firmly to the left of the modern Democrats, and the Democrat would be firmly to the left of the modern Republican.
Actually what we currently have is unbridled capitalism specifically the military industrial complex, with two vaguely different coats of paint. Culture warrior shit is just used as a rhetorical differentiator, "nothing fundamentally changes" under either party. I don't really want to ote for the party the has roe v wade abolished under it's watch, and then just uses it as a fund raising talking point.
load more comments
(15 replies)
While no one can be ready, at least I am prepared.
The haters are armed and organized, are you?
Work towards peace, prepare for the inevitable.
SocialistRA.org
Armed queers bash back
Is that a sticker cause I fucking love it
There is a fascinating cognitive bias where people seem to think because we live in current times it means that history can't happen to us.
“History Doesn’t Repeat Itself, but It Often Rhymes” – Mark Twain
view more: next ›