What the fuck spain???
this post was submitted on 23 Mar 2024
166 points (97.2% liked)
Privacy
32173 readers
478 users here now
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don't promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
Related communities
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
They argue that's because of piracy, but some people have other theories...
Yeah let me just boot up fucking telegram to watch this pirated movie, said 7 people ever.
In Spain most young people get their pirated sport streams on Telegram.
Oh, sports. Now it makes sense.
We forgot about the futbol
Perhaps the real futbol was the friends we made along the way
You laugh but there's actually a very big and active piracy community on Telegram sharing videos
You would be surprised how many channels are created to distribute streamings soccer, F1, and more content...
Now I'm interested.
For context, here is a map that shows the countries where telegram is banned:
(Dark red: Completely blocked; Light red: Blocked partially (some ISPs or audio traffic)) (Source: commons.wikimedia.org)
That’s uhhh not great company you’re in there Spain old boy Milad miboy milad
I have already set up a proxy on my foreign VPS. National Court can suck my duck.
B...bu...but... their authority 🥺
Mullvad eatin good as governments desperately try to regulate the ungovernable.
Mullvad was already forced to stop port forwarding though.
It sucks as my shitty ISP doesn't allow port forwarding, so I literally used it for hosting video games.
How many years do they lock you in a cage for if you're found bypassing the ban tho?
AFAIK, connecting to a random port on your own server isn't a crime. Yet.
It is in many countries. I dont know about Spain.
So much for free markets, democracy and freedom of speech. Yes, they blocked it because of copyright infringement but let's face it, piracy should be viewed as a market option for people to get their content, providers need to step up their game and make their content easier to get to from official / payed sources instead of attacking piracy this way. If they can't do it, well, their loss, eventually someone who can will be on the market.
If piracy is a market option, that implies it's legal (or at least decriminalized), therefore copyright is not enforceable. There are all kinds of issues if that's the case, depending on how much of copyright we choose to not enforce.
If piracy is decriminalized, what's to stop someone from setting up a store and completely undermining digital distribution?
I think penalties for piracy are unreasonable, but I don't think piracy should be completely decriminalized. The penalty should be capped at a reasonable number (say, median retail price times number of distributed copies, capped at 50, reduced based on means; if multiple games, cap at 10 games worth). That shouldn't ruin most people, but it should deter enough to preserve demand for legal copies. Also, since penalties are reduced, it's probably not worth it for big publishers to go after pirates unless it's actually impacting their business.
good because fuck copyright.
I mean it’s pretty cool if you make something yourself
If piracy is decriminalized, what’s to stop someone from setting up a store and completely undermining digital distribution?
Nothing, and that's kind of the point. However due to the fungible and reproduceable nature of digital media one of those stores won't last long because it will get quickly overrun by free alternatives. It would just apply pressure into "legal" platforms be behave better.
To be fair, I would even agree that piracy for personal usage / not for profit should be okay, while privacy for profit could be a crime. I think that's a more reasonable approach and mostly what happens today.
Why would people buy from the legal platform if there's no consequences to using the free platform that's just as convenient? It's really not hard to make a platform that distributes a game, look at Heroic, which is completely volunteer run.
The reason people use services like Steam and GOG over piracy is because piracy requires more work due to legal restrictions. If you legalize it, game studios would respond by putting games entirely (or at least a substantial portion) server side, so there's no way to back up your media. That's absolutely not what I want.
I think it's important to keep piracy illegal, but drastically reduce the penalty so individuals don't get completely screwed if they get caught. That would increase pressure on companies to make their games more accessible and reduce the likelihood that a company would sue someone, but still gives an option if piracy gets out of control.
Why would people buy from the legal platform if there’s no consequences to using the free platform that’s just as convenient?
Because legal platforms backed by large media groups can create platforms more convenient than those pirated options.
The reason people use services like Steam and GOG over piracy is because piracy requires more work due to legal restrictions
Yes, this just shows that those services are crap, nothing else.
Interesting approach. Thanks for elaborating. The current copyright rules might be legal but they are both wrong and broken. Companies should not have the right to hold or enforce copyright at all, only the people involved in a project, which means all of them. Then there should not be companies larger than 999 mil which takes a lot of this dystopian shit out.
So much for free markets, democracy and freedom of speech.
I don't know whether Spain cares a lot about "free market" at the moment.
Even if I get your point and would even make a similiar point in a privat conversation, there is still a problem. The problem, if and how the Freedom of Speech implies that you can use a certain service you choice. If this implication were true, would it not mean that the provider of the named service has a duty to provide you a access, too?
Yes, they blocked it because of copyright infringement but let’s face it, piracy should be viewed as a market option for people to get their content,
There are messenger out there, which are more privacy as Telegram. Eg. Signal, Threemea, mostly services based on XMPP and Matrix.
The problem, if and how the Freedom of Speech implies that you can use a certain service you choice. If this implication were true, would it not mean that the provider of the named service has a duty to provide you a access, too?
Why would the provider be responsible for the fact that some government is a piece of shits and tries to restrict people's freedoms? A private messenger company will always be weaker than a government with infinite funding and resources.
There are messenger out there, which are more privacy as Telegram. Eg. Signal, Threemea, mostly services based on XMPP and Matrix.
I never said there weren't, I just said that govts shouldn't meddle in this things.
Translation:
Telegram, the most popular alternative instant messaging application to WhatsApp, will be temporarily blocked in Spain by order of the judge of the National Court, Santiago Pedraz, as a result of a complaint filed by Mediaset, Antena 3, and Movistar, who accused the application of hosting copyrighted content without permission.
At the time of publishing this article, the messaging application continues to function normally, but it is expected that the service will cease to be operational in the next few hours, once telecommunications companies carry out the block imposed by the National Court.
As explained on Telecinco, the National Court would have requested information from Telegram about the alleged audiovisual content hosted without permission on the platform, owned by the companies that filed the complaint: EGEDA, Atresmedia, Mediaset, and Movistar. Since the administrators of the social network have not responded to the judge's request, he has opted to order the block temporarily while the investigation continues.
At the moment, Telegram has not commented on the block.
Although many Telegram users are still able to use the messaging platform without problems, services like DownDetector are already collecting the first complaints from users affected by the block.
It is expected that, gradually, all telecommunications operators in the country will take the necessary measures to block the use of the messaging service.
Is it possible to block Telegram?
The reality, despite the judicial block of the platform that the different national operators are obliged to implement, completely blocking Telegram is very complicated. Telegram as a platform is prepared for this type of situation, and one of the first measures that blocked users can take may be the configuration of a proxy. A proxy is a mechanism by which the platform is accessed from another server (the proxy), thus avoiding the network blockage of Telegram servers (which are not located in national territory).
Another possibility to continue using Telegram during the block is the use of a VPN. A VPN is a private connection that allows access to the Internet from another geographical location. In this way, a Spanish user connected to a French VPN could access Telegram servers from France since this block only affects our national territory. For example, iPhone users who have iCloud+ already have a VPN service by default on their devices, so they would not need to contract or configure an additional VPN.
Will the data be deleted during the block?
No, all your data and Telegram conversations will remain intact on Telegram servers. You do not need to back up that information or take it anywhere else. But if you are affected by the judicial block and cannot access it, until the judicial block is lifted or you access Telegram from an unblocked network (such as proxies or VPNs mentioned in the previous point), you will not have access to your data.
Does this imply the closure of Telegram in Spain?
Telegram, which has more than 800 million active users worldwide, does not have operational presence in Spain. This means that it does not have headquarters or employees managing any of the network in this country. Telegram was created by Pavel Durov, who remains its CEO today. Previously, Pavel was the creator of VK, the most popular social network in Russia as an alternative to Facebook. Telegram was already blocked in Russia in 2018 because its creator refused to provide information about its users to the government. This has not prevented Telegram from continuing to operate and being one of the most important communication channels today in that country.
Original text:
Telegram, la aplicación de mensajería instantánea alternativa a WhatsApp más popular, será bloqueada en España de manera cautelar por orden del juez de la Audiencia Nacional, Santiago Pedraz, como consecuencia de una denuncia presentada por Mediaset, Antena 3 y Movistar, quienes acusaban a la aplicación de alojar contenido protegido por derechos de autor sin permiso. Telegram
En el momento de publicar este artículo, la aplicación de mensajería sigue funcionando con normalidad, pero se espera que el servicio deje de estar operativo en las próximas horas, una vez las empresas de telecomunicaciones lleven a cabo el bloqueo impuesto por la Audiencia Nacional.
Como explican en Telecinco, la Audiencia Nacional habría solicitado a Telegram información sobre el supuesto contenido audiovisual alojado sin permiso en la plataforma, propiedad de las empresas que han presentado la denuncia: EGEDA, Atresmedia, Mediaset y Movistar. Dado que los administradores de la red social no habrían dado una respuesta a la petición del magistrado, este ha optado por ordenar el bloqueo de manera cautelar mientras continúa la investigación.
Por el momento, desde Telegram no se han pronunciado al respecto del bloqueo. Telegram dejará de estar operativa en España de manera cautelar
Aunque muchos de los usuarios de Telegram siguen siendo capaces de utilizar la plataforma de mensajería sin problemas, servicios como DownDetector ya recogen las primeras quejas de usuarios afectados por el bloqueo.
Se espera que, poco a poco, todas las operadoras de telecomunicaciones del país lleven a cabo las medidas necesarias para bloquear el uso del servicio de mensajería. ¿Es posible bloquear Telegram?
La realidad, a pesar del bloqueo judicial de la plataforma que los diferentes operadores nacionales están obligados a implementar, bloquear completamente Telegram es muy complicado. Telegram como plataforma está preparada para este tipo de situaciones y una de las primeras medidas que pueden tomar los usuarios bloqueados puede ser la configuración de un proxy. Un proxy es un mecanismo por el cual se accede a la plataforma desde otro servidor (el proxy) y de esta forma se evita el bloqueo a nivel de red de los servidores de Telegram (que no se encuentran en territorio nacional).
Otra posibilidad para continuar usando Telegram durante el bloqueo es el uso de una VPN. Una VPN es una conexión privada que permite acceder a Internet desde otro lugar geográfico. De esta forma, un usuario español conectado a una VPN francesa podría acceder a los servidores de Telegram desde Francia ya que este bloqueo solo afecta a nuestro territorio nacional. Por ejemplo los usuarios de iPhone que tengan contratado iCloud+ ya tienen un servicio de VPN por defecto en sus dispositivos por lo que no necesitarían contratar o configurar una VPN adicional.
¿Se van a borrar los datos durante el bloqueo?
No, todos tus datos y conversaciones de Telegram se mantendrán intactos en los servidores de Telegram. No necesitas hacer una copia de seguridad de esa información ni necesitas llevártela a ningún otro lado. Pero si estás afectado por el bloqueo judicial y no puedes acceder a él, hasta que no se levante el bloqueo judicial o accedas a Telegram desde una red no bloqueada (como los proxys o las VPNs que comentábamos en el punto anterior) no tendrás acceso a tus datos. ¿Esto implica el cierre de Telegram en España?
Telegram, que tiene más de 800 millones de usuarios activos en el mundo, no tiene presencia operativa en España. Esto quiere decir que no tiene sede ni tiene empleados que gestionen nada de la red en este país. Telegram fue creado por Pavel Durov quien sigue siendo su CEO en la actualidad. Previamente Pavel fue el creador de VK, la red social más popular en Rusia como alternativa a Facebook. Telegram ya fue bloqueado en Rusia en el año 2018 porque su creador se negó a proporcionar información de sus usuarios al gobierno. Esto no ha impedido que Telegram haya seguido operando y que sea una de las vías de comunicación más importantes a día de hoy en ese país.
I wonder if the next rabbit they pull out of they're ass will be blocking browser while investigating the illegal content?
They blocked Github before - https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50232902
So it's not surprising.
It's gonna be rough when they come for the VPNs like Italy has though.
The article mentions a single repo/app, not github as a whole.
I'm conflicted: on one hand, fuck telegram; on the other hand, fuck media companies and their copyrighted bullshit. The same stuff as with tiktok in usa
I’m conflicted: on one hand, fuck telegram
Why this?
Mostly the lack of e2ee by default (like seriously, even WhatsApp does this), data collection for targeted ads (since relatively recently), closed-source server-side, and providing data to law enforcements despite claiming not to in their FAQ.
Also them constantly breaking backwards compatibility by introducing useless garbage (like that textured background when replying to sb with premium) is kinda annoying. Like seriously, they could've just extracted the text instead of "this message is not supported by your version of $client_name"
That are good reasons.
Read the article: it was blocked because it somehow hosts copyrighted material
Not 100% correct. It was blocked because the court requested information from Telegram about copyright hosted content and got ignored by Telegram.
Seems absolutely valid to block a service when it tries to evade national jurisdiction.
And here's why, in a single phrase, I used "somehow"
Yes, the article (and the translation I provided) is very transparent. I, as most people in thls sub, think this is a violation to our rights as citizens.
they have a town named torrent, they cannot control pirates
I had a teacher whose surname was literally Torrent. Pirates are unstoppable.