A friendly place to chat.
No politics please. Don't be a dick.
Across countries, social borders, faiths, genders, ethnicities, age groups, sexual harassment seems to crop up when the opportunity presents itself.
I'd much rather see this than any of the commercial adverts.
It is useful information too. Most people won't interrupt or help, and partly because they are not sure how. I saw this recently and it did make me think, if I did see something happening I have a better idea of how I can help.
It also creates an environment where you cannot justify not acting because you don't think you can help, and that we as a society are saying it is not acceptable. If one person challenges harassment that would not have done so before seeing that, I'd count it as a success.
Stuff like this helps pull people out of the bystander effect which is what you’re describing. It gives everyone a call to action, either actively asking a question or silently reporting it, which is pretty rad.
Apparently sexual harassment on public transportation in the UK has risen by 63% since 2019:
British Transport Police (BTP) received 421 reports of harassment between April and October, up from 259 over the same period in 2019.
I have no idea how to put these numbers or that percentage into perspective. Of course, even one case is one too much, I just don't know what's the threshold where people can feel safe or how it compares to just walking on the street or whatnot.
Male so my view is at best a guess.
But I imagine being harrased on a moving and often crowded train where you limited option to remove yourself from the event. While also facing fear the passengers will judge you rather then the harrassor.
Likely means any event is more stressful.
I think less than one case is probably the goal.
I view that statistic in reality as 6 people, I'm assuming mostly women, getting sexually harassed every day, creating a culture of harassment that even if you don't get harassed that day, you know that half a dozen other people just like you were sexually harassed that day, and yesterday, and tomorrow.
By putting up that sign of awareness, hopefully fewer people will view reporting sexual harassment or mentioning it at all as taboo so that everyone can help push the number back down and further down past prepandemic levels.
I strongly suspect it's underreported as well. Speak to enough women and you hear distressingly familiar stories about public harassment. I think attitudes have improved somewhat since my mum's days (avoiding being grouped on the train to school was apparently just one of those things) but still has a long way to go.
Even if it wasn't commonplace, ads like this keep us vigilant and (assuming they can read) should deter the predatory types.
Without revealing too much, my mother was a women's rights activist for a short while when I was younger (in the mid-90s).
She was abused by a priest within the Asian community, and was told (like many women before her) to keep quiet, since the norm was to blame the woman for being abused. My mother said fuck that, and spoke up. She was on every major TV station giving interviews, she was on Kilroy twice (was a very popular talk show here in the UK), shook hands with Princess Diana, etc.
The reason I bring that up, is due to one time when she would go on a local radio station and provide her phone number live on air, telling women to contact her, that she would go through the pranks and spam if there was the chance of victims coming through.
The amount of women experiencing every day harassment was something that I just cannot forget, as a young man knowing the extent of what women go through in regards to daily harassment really helped shape my understanding. It is a real issue that I believe a lot of men are simply unaware of as nothing of that sort happens to us. I've met countless women who have told me they are afraid to wear dresses that are shorter than down to their ankles, in fear of being groped. In 2024 this shouldn't be a thing but here we are.
These signs are, unfortunately, needed to raise some awareness. It's not an issue that faces me directly, but man it definitely is an issue for a lot of women out there. Getting MUCH better, however still something that needs to be acknowledged imho.
I think so, yes. I had to step in when I saw a small group of men who appeared in their mid/late 20's harassing a teenage girl at Victoria fairly recently. Ads like this not only make it clear that it's unacceptable but it also empowers bystanders to get involved.
Counterquestion: How much sexual harrasment do you think is ok before these kinds of ads are justified?
And another one: What would you replace these ads with?
To be honest, this is one of those ads that are actually useful. When I was riding the underground (different city than London), most of the ads were either some inane webshop crap, or "sell your blood plasma for 600 EUR a month".
What would you replace these ads with?
Art
Probably yes, but also these "stop crime" ads make people more afraid and make the police state worse. Especially "see it, say it, sorted" gives me the creeps
“stop crime” ads make people more afraid and make the police state worse
Can you explain this for me?
Human beings are really bad at understanding statistics. Generally crime is trending down in the long term. Statistically, the world is a much safer place when it comes to interpersonal violence.
These facts are harder for us to grasp than the flashy, shocking "if it bleeds, it leads" news story. People's anecdotal knowledge of the world tends to beat out the statistics we read when we shape our perspective of the world. That leads to frequent mismatches between what people believe the world is like and what the world is actually like.
A prime example of this is the "stranger danger" public awareness campaign in the US. The effort encouraged parents to be wary of strangers that may abduct their child. The problem is that the vast and overwhelming majority of child abductions are perpetrated by family members or by individuals known to the family - not strangers.
Across the US the "anecdotal" event of being frightened by a stranger danger TV ad had a strong impact on the perceptions of many parents. A lot of those people continued to believe that the greatest risk of kidnapping came from strangers even after the (correct) contradictory statistics became widely publicized. Similarly, these "stop crime" ads can frighten people just a little bit at imagining the scenario they describe. This experience can shape perception in a large and lasting way and make people perceive the problem as being more prevalent than it is.
Interesting. My local transit has ads listing a number to text for help. As far as I know the number goes straight to the transit police force and not the cops and I always thought it was a good thing to reassure people (especially women traveling at night) that they can text the number if they feel unsafe and someone will be there to help them.
Would you consider this the same/a bad thing?
FYI I am pretty anti-police.
OP is pointing out. That historically police states. (IE states where law enforcement has been given to much power).
Start by creating fear among the populace. A population with an over active idea of how common crime is. Will be more willing to support governments that control them.
Which is is daft when you can simply look up the stats.
The reason there are so many posters is sure to political pressure and a marginal rise in figures https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8829ked1x3o
It's also a part of "no broken windows" theatre. The story says that if there's an abandoned house in the neighborhood and hooligans break one window, it must be covered up as fast as possible, otherwise, they are going to smash all the windows because they do not fear being seen anymore.
All of those traffic tickets, small fines for petty crime, etc. are designed to reinforce the idea of "we're watching you, obey the law" because if you can get away with small crimes, you will be more likely to commit more serious ones.
Personally, I don't like it, but a lot of petty government functionaries subscribe to this philosophy and that's why we can't have nice things.
Agree fully with your examples.
But given the long history of refusal to address both violence to and harassment of women. Seems this is the one case where ensuring people pay attention and help. Can only be a good thing.
Yes. How the fuck is this even a question?
Also, they're not saying "Oi, step in if you see someone being harassed on this train but anywhere else, feel free to cheer the offender on as normal." TFL just have better leadership than the country does, so they're running the campaign.
Yes
I first got harassed on public transport when I was 11. For years getting on public transport involved being hyper vigilant and trying to hide. And it's fucking exhausting. I shouldn't have to be relieved that I'm too old to harass, and really it's no relief because it just means they're harassing someone else.
Distract with a discharge of bear spray to their face.
You may be surprised to learn that pepper spray or varieties thereof are classified as firearms in the UK under section 5 of the 1968 act and possession of such has a sentence of upto 10 years.
That's crazy! You can buy pepper or bear spray over the counter here. No special anything required. 10 years for a non lethal form of self defense that causes no permanent harm seems ridiculously excessive.
Edit: you guys can't carry pocket knives either. Right?
You can carry a folding blade if its 3" or less. Anything else must have a reasonable explanation e.g. I am chef commuting to work.
Oh, at least that's a reasonable regulation for the knives. I had heard that no pocket knives were allowed. What's the justification for the pepper spray?
A knife has a utility beyond inflicting harm on others, pepper sprays have only that use.
Pepper spray is useful for self defense though, and doesn't cause any permanent harm. Is punching someone who is robbing you also illegal?
Deaths from asphyxiation related to pepper spray. Are far from unknown. And while odds are other health conditions are involved in most past cases. Those deaths are why it has been banned here.
We are def what the US would call a nanny state. But most are fine with this to the greater extent.
And self defence in the UK stops at the idea of going prepared. UK laws do not allow anything that is intended as a weapon to be carried. So no punching someone in the process of robbing you is fine. Only if you feel at threat of physical harm. If you are a 6ft muscled man and cought an 80yo tiny pick pocket taking your wallet. And punched him. The police would arrest you both. In fact in most situations where you attacked someone robbing you. You should expect to have to show you felt at threat. Not uncommonly in court. Depending on the result of your attack.
Punching someone with a knuckle duster would mean your were preparing for a fight when you decided to take it with you. So illegal. And attacking someone running away after robbing you would be a crime.
You're right, that does sound like a nanny State to me. But I don't live there, so I haven't had a lifetime to become accustomed to their rules. Thanks for the explanation.
Discombobulate