Why would I pay for something I don't even want to use for free?
I really don't feel that the Fediverse needs to be business friendly. They tend to ruin everything they touch.
this post was submitted on 09 Feb 2024
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I don't quite see how paid and federated go together. Would only the users on that platform have to pay while others would be able to access it from their free instances?
Yes exactly.
You can pay to fund the instance you use. To help ensure it's worth the time of whoever is managing it.
It's how Communick works. Or is hoped to work. It seems difficult to convince fedizins to pay for this great stuff.
Yeah, that's what I was hoping for. I'm a believer that money = value. If something or someone is valuable, it should be paid for and there's nothing wrong with that.
I'm also a believer that you can operate in FOSS/Fedi-mode and still make money.
I mean, they could operate on an allow list model, and your instance domain is federated with them as long as your subscription is active (ofc it'd be a subscription because it's 2024 and everything is awful).
Yup, an instance would be paid, but if someone wanted to launch a service of their own they totally could...they just won't have the upstream features and the primary support from the paid instance.
If you peruse the fediblock hashtag on mastodon, you'll see that most corporations are blocked expeditiously. The vibe of the Fediverse isn't into placating corporations or having non people in people's personal spaces.
You're free to make an instance, but know that whether it's Frendica, Lemmy, PixelFed or even mastodon, you're not likely to get much traction.
Yeah, that's why I was kinda wondering.
I see an alignment-problem:
IF it is paid by the job-seekers, who may be destitute, THEN the rich job-seekers distort the market in their favor.
ELSIF it is paid by the job-posters, who definitely intend to underpay all whom they hire, then it has motivation to help misrepresent things.
Enshittification is inevitable, either-way.
I hold that the Fediverse NEEDS a LinkedIn replacement, the problem is that a healthy such replacement is in the Public interest, & therefore the Public ought be paying for it.
Which will never happen, in the lobbied-puppets "electorate" world.
It isn't even a political question, left or right, it is a market-integrity question.
The greater the integrity of the employment-market, the stronger the country, obviously.
Therefore removing the job-board/job-market from ALL special-interest-groups/torquers/machiavellians can significantly benefit the country(ies) who impliment correctly, in the long-term/strategic scope.
_ /\ _
Job-seeker/employer is only a drop in the ocean of what professional networking (and LinkedIn) is about. It's a community of businesses that all help each other collaborate and build...a way to share ideas and make new connections...at least, I think that's what everyone wants it to be.
LinkedIn is a burning dumpster fire, where the dumpster is intentionally designed to be anti-user, and the fire is kindled by narcissists and predators.
Haha, this is true. Hence why I was looking for a way to serve people.
I'm honestly looking at your idea, and really I am.
I think you're trying to solve spam by making it a paid service, but paid and walled gardens go directly against the fediverse, whose protocol can be read and submitted to by anyone. So it's either a paid walled garden, in which case it's LinkedIn, or it's open.
Instead, I'd say that you're going for a verification system, to say I am this person and I am willing to prove it is. I think this could be done, and your platform would only care about others who are verified. Spammers aren't willing to prove who they are, and for most of the fediverse I could see them going against something like a verification system. However on a platform like linked in that's different, you could have a verification system and it'd be to its benefit.
My 2 cents at least
Nope, no verification system...complete opposite...you'd just need to pay an I don't care who you are (I'd even take crypto like Monero). I think being on week 4 of wrestling with LinkedIn's verification system (being in LI jail for the 3rd time!) has made me sick of it.
One thing I like about the fediverse is it's very community-driven. If I come across a spam message on Mastodon, I'll start to report it to the community but find 10 others who are saying the same thing and within 5 minutes the dude is out. Meanwhile LinkedIn has a draconian verification system that treats its users like toddlers, while every other week I have someone asking to take over my UpWork account (and LI doesn't ban them).
Oh, then no. As someone who heavily uses LinkedIn for my professional life and the fediverse for my personal, I would not use it. Fediverse is great for my personal life, LinkedIn is free and already used abundently. It's how I've gotten my last several jobs. I would see no benefit in paying for a smaller less used service.
I think most people would agree with me, why pay for something that would have less recruiters and less benefit than using LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a sell out's game, sure, but I'm not exactly going there because I want to give out crunchy granola vibes either.
Ah, I see. Yeah, I keep forgetting that a lot of people use LinkedIn for job-searching (I mean, I kinda do too, but been active on it like 7 years without a single follow-through). I see it as a networking tool. Job-searching may be part of it, but business leaders and ultra wealthy use it to make connections and support each other (theoretically). Businesses/creators would be the target market. Maybe some job-search aspect to it at some point.
linkedin is like going to the dentist with less reward. yeah, it seems to exist for a ..a reason. but i sure as fuck dont like using it
I've been thinking about creating a federated LinkedIn but still haven't totally nailed the concept, as it goes far beyond just posting content. But no, I doubt you could convince anyone to pay for it.
My main frustration right now is that with the downfall of twitter, LinkedIn became the defacto business contact that people exchange at conferences and meetups. What I'd love to have is an alternative to that for starters.
If you're serious about that, I would love to have a chat.
I knew it wouldn't be long before someone started looking into a LinkedIn type ActivityPub ๐
Not thrilled about it being a "paid" service though. I've not been on here for a year yet but this is the first I've heard of anyone wanting to do a paid for ActivityPub....
Years ago I think I would have been in the same boat about not being a fan of something like this being paid, but I think the main reason why big tech platforms have become enshittified is because we haven't demanded value and instead demanded free. And because we've demanded free we have two camps: big tech that can yank our chain, and free/libre solutions that may survive just barely on donations and the good will of people (and wanting it to be free as in $ IMO is devaluing the importance of the fediverse). I think a good solution to promote software freedom and the fediverse is for some paid instances to be part of it.
I think the main challenge of the fediverse will be cost. The bigger the network becomes, the more data each instance will have to handle, because each instance will have to communicate with more instances and copy data from them. The average person without disposable income will probably not afford to run their own instance at some point. So unless we figure out monetization, the future of the fediverse at scale is at risk.
At MPAQ, we run 4 Internet radio stations, an XMPP server, Beamship and working on an email server.
We have donation buttons but very rarely does anyone send anything.
99.9% of our cost is working small jobs here and there. I think our network admin will agree with me when I say: Our services will ALWAYS be free. And as a way to introduce our team:
That's great, but in the end of the day they are only free because you have a charitable admin. It's free for users but not free to run. How big could you grow and still be sustainable? Could you handle tens of millions of users?
As big as it takes because we will never be part of the capitalist/corporate/colonized system again. Good luck when your money means nothing anymore.
This makes no sense to me. Someone still has to pay the bills if there's not enough donations. You may wish to not be part of the system but still are required to pay electricity and Internet. I guess you can use solar panels for power, but the ISP will probably not feel so charitable.
This is a wild comment section.
Thanks for coming up with the idea. Iโve thought about this a couple of times but that was it so far.
I think only people who have actually used linkedin for an extended amount of time will get its up and downsides (and no, Iโm not a fan).
To approach this problem bottom up, I ask myself, what is linkedin?
Job-site for some, facebook for business contacts for most I guess. So something like friendica comes to mind so the general user can switch easily while mastodon and lemmy dont fit the bill in my opinion. Making a whole new thing (using AP) would be possible but Iโm not sure its such a great idea. Companies dont care if its a different app, they care about marketing which can be done by changing the frontend.
Disclaimer
As someone with a wide variety of jobs on their cv I have also been an employer, both employed in HR exec and an entrepreneur for nearly 20 yrs. i have paid for job ads and have hired people at higher wages as the competition because even back then I didnt care how low I can go but how people earn a living.
Payment
In opposition to popular belief, small companies happily(?) pay for job ads if that is the cost of doing business. If its legal work and not lazy searching for victims, paying a small amount (100-500 โฌ$ depending on the outcome) is no problem imo. Maybe it should depend on the revenue the company posts on their profile btw. Also in my experience, people seem to think corpos are the best way to make money. Short term that may be correct but it is a stupid idea. I made a living with my company to limit business to a maximum of 10% to one customer (also businesses). That way no corporation could threaten to ruin me. The same should go here. I would not give higher power to those able to pay more. Make fair, transparent prices that pay for hardware, software, electricity and work, not a ferrari. The idea of getting rich is toxic and against the nature of the fediverse imo.
Federation
Other fediverse services will defederate the instance as they do with each other as well but thats a risk I would take. The important question imo is why?. I defederate because the spam, hate of an instance outweighs its benefits. So one goal would be to keep as many as possible from defederating. So a non-violent approach would be great. The instance cant accept bigotry, corporate lies (big factor), migoynism, ableism, etc. Europe is kind of progressive in job legislature which is how Iโd do it since companies would miss out a lot of viewers otherwise.
The idea
I would probably go forth with some pretty idealistic goals and unique proposals. Something like give visibility to small companies, to ethically trying companies, maybe design some kind of code of conduct for fediverse-acceptable-companies or something. The range of ideas is wide imo.
Privacy
The worst part of this imo is the fact that people are with their personal info on linkedin. I dont know if they have scrape prevention measures but the amount of personal data you can get from there seems scary. The risk doing this in the fedi seems high. Iโd probably try to transition to nicknames like the rest does. People can post personal info which is anonymited in the open and once the company and person have made contact and the person says ok, that one company can view their job info.
Summary
So after writing this, I think its worth trying. Lemmy and mastodon are very much places to discuss stuff but obviously, lemmy is very critical of this and I get that. Mastodon will probably be more open but less technically adept imo. Good luck and lmk if you need help. Iโm experienced in process design, am an admin and know some code.
I don't personally use Linkedin so I can't really comment on how a federated alternative would work or be useful for professionals and networking.
What I will say is that paid/business-related and the general fediverse culture/design seems like oil and water. Especially the paid part. It simply won't take off unless there is a mass exodus of people from Linkedin (very unlikely). And even then, having multiple instances for something as focused on Linkedin doesn't seem viable. It's probably better off centralized and disconnected from a large network like the Fediverse, in my opinion.
The closest the fediverse can get to this is professionals using Mastodon or something in the same way they used Twitter before it imploded. Interesting idea though.
True, and thanks.
Of all the social networks out there, I think there is a reason that nobody else has tried to replicate LinkedIn in the Fediverse yet. It's just not a very attractive idea in the first place.
The only value I see in that pkatform is as a professional network where users can present their work profile separately from, I dunno, their interesting life stuff? I'm not sure because I haven't used LinkedIn since Microsoft bought it. Even then it was the kind of tedious who-works-where-now oneupmanship that got old real quick.
I don't see actual platforms in that vein working in the Fediverse where people can just make alt accounts โ on special interest instances that cater to their specific line of work, if such exist. The corporate soul crunching of potential employers monitoring your LinkedIn account for signs of unemployability is just not something you want to carry over anywhere.
Would I be able to post my nudes there?