this post was submitted on 09 Jan 2024

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133

Lonely in a crowded world: Loneliness is an epidemic, and like COVID, it might require a public health response (rabble.ca)

submitted 10 months ago by Stamets to c/[email protected]

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[–] Stamets 61 points 10 months ago (9 children)

Why do you think I'm so active on Lemmy? I am lonely. Deeply, deeply lonely. Have been my whole life and it only has gotten worse thanks to COVID. Mental health is collapsing in general for a lot of people after COVID and I just can't keep up. I've got no hope. No drive. No motivation. Half the time lately I've been getting out of bed just to post memes because at least its a little less lonely here and people suck a little less. Everyone's a little kinder.

The world feels a lot darker than it did 5 years ago.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago

Well from one isolated person to another, I hope you know I appreciate you engaging with us. The world is better with you in it.

[–] Orbituary 12 points 10 months ago

You wrote this for me. Thanks.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago

I just wanted to say that I appreciate you posting on Lemmy and making it alive and full of content, and I hope you find the company you need. Virtual hug from the Internet 🫂

[–] systemglitch 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If anyone wants to come over, smoke a little weed or drink a little beer, my home is open.

Doubt you live in Saskatoon, but if you do, we can sit by an open fire, eat some mushrooms I grew myself and play with the dog outside when it warms up in about three months.

I have a lot of wood.

[–] Stamets 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I'm in Ontario... so close and so far.

That last line is sus in the best way

[–] jownz 2 points 10 months ago

Ontario is so big! Like where specifically? I bet there are literally dozens of us around the GTA!

[–] 2deck 7 points 10 months ago

You wake up on a planet where your species is living in a terrible system of exploitation, learn that the planet is heating up, it feels like noone can do anything or talk about any of it. We're shown people dying and told we're headed that way.

But there are sparks and small flames where like-minded people will huddle. Get close and enjoy the warmth. Adversity can be a seed for growth.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

I've checked the article for public health type solutions and all it says is that you should go to a park and a library if you have some nearby. Also “We all need friends. I am here for you.” .

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Your posts make another loners' lives a little less miserable. That's something. Last years completely shut my creativeness and I'm kinda surprised so much people are still able to bring joy, laughter into my life, especially in this small and comfy place. If it makes you leave the bed, it's for the better. Maybe it'd inspire you to undertake other things too.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Join a club. Bowl or shoot pool or play softball. Find an activity that uses other people. Hiking requires no special skills.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Capitalism is socially isolating by design. The potential for the people to organize is revolutionary. Capitalists do not want a social revolution originating from the bottom rings of the social hierarchy

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

I have lived alone since 2006. I am not lonely. They are different things I love being alone. I never feel lonely because I know that there are people who care for me in spite of me never seeing them.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I still find it rather frustrating that the struggles of introverts forced to engage with the world in a way more appropriate for extroverts are ignored, but when extroverts are forced to act like introverts, it's "a crisis" and "an epidemic".

[–] FireRetardant 5 points 10 months ago

Introverts can get lonely too

[+] [email protected] -18 points 10 months ago (3 children)

This may be true for some, but so, so many of us want to find more time to be with ourselves. To disconnect and spend more time away from people. Just to enjoy some peace and quiet.

[–] Stamets 24 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's not being lonely then, is it?

[+] [email protected] -17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's what I mean. Some people may be lonely, but others crave to be alone.

[–] Stamets 32 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

No, you're not getting it.

This article is about loneliness, not about being alone. People who like being alone have nothing to do with this article. What you've effectively done is come in and say "Yeah I know you guys are really upset and your mental health is totally fucked by this but I'm really happy and this is awesome!"

This article has literally nothing to do with enjoying being alone. It is about the dead opposite of that. That's what I mean by saying then that's not being lonely. If you enjoy it then this article isn't for you. Let the people who it is for actually discuss it without immediately minimizing our pain and stress over the situation.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I didn't mean to minimize anything, and I'm sorry if it came out that way.

I understand and acknowledge that some people, for one reason or another, are suffering from loneliness.

But I also acknowledge that the opposite has happened to others. They are too overwhelmed by the constant interactions they have, either digitally or face-to-face, and want to distance themselves from these interactions, but often can't.

Both loneliness and the inability to detach from constant interactions are both quite bad for mental health. It's not a competition; people from opposite ends of the spectrum are suffering.

[–] Stamets 12 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to explain this to you other than this.

This isn't about you. This is about people who are upset and depressed and need help because of loneliness. You clearly are not part of that group as you keep saying. You claim that you are not here to minimize but here you are, doubling down, and minimizing the suffering that lonely people are going through. Not people who are alone. People who are lonely. Not people who are enjoying solitude. People who are lonely. Not people who are dealing with being overwhelmed. People who are lonely.

To put it in another form, you're effectively walking into an eating disorder clinic and saying "Yeah, this place might be needed for some but I mean for a lot of us it's an outlet." Do you get it now?

[–] Beachgoingcitizen 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

This dude aint minimizing anyones suffering. I can imagine that people who are overwhelmed by the rigours of modern living and need to retreat is one of the contributing factors to a fractured society that results in lonely people.

The article even says at much.

Dont hate on this person for acknowledging that the people respond differntly to the same broken system. Everyones hurting man

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

It's good for that person that they aren't feeling the loneliness mentioned in the article, yes. The poster IS feeling that loneliness, though.

Was it necessary for that person to say that in response to someone who is saying that they are having those bad thoughts and feelings? Probably not. Are they a bad person? Probably not.

"I feel horribly lonely" "I don't feel lonely. In fact, I loved the aspects of life that caused you to feel this way"

(The above might be how it comes off to some people.)

I mean, it's good for everyone who doesn't feel lonely, but that person feeling good still doesn't really help people like the poster who do feel lonely.

I don't think the commenter is wrong necessarily, but it should almost be expected to get less than happy responses from the OP, especially with the context.

[–] Stamets 7 points 10 months ago

I give up.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This isn’t about you.

I didn't realize that it was. I never said that it was.

This is about people who are upset and depressed and need help because of loneliness.

Yes, I understand that completely.

To put it in another form, you’re effectively walking into an eating disorder clinic and saying “Yeah, this place might be needed for some but I mean for a lot of us it’s an outlet.” Do you get it now?

No, I haven't, and it's strange to think that anyone would get that from what I wrote.

I was merely acknowledging that there are two extremes to this mental struggle: loneliness, and people who are overwhelmed by having too much contact. Neither is worse off than the other, neither is suffering more than the other, mental illness isn't a competition, anyone who is suffering needs their own form of self-care and attention.

Without wanting to offend anyone else, that's all I have to say.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I was merely acknowledging that there are two extremes to this mental struggle: loneliness, and people who are overwhelmed by having too much contact.

And that's the problem. While those two extremes do exist, this post is not about people overwhelmed by having too much contact, it's about literally the exact opposite. OP made this post looking for support and validation of the loneliness they feel, and your first response was essentially "Yeah that's sucks for you, but I and many other people desperately crave the thing you suffer from". You're not wrong, the issue of people feeling overwhelmed is an equally valid issue, but there's a time and place to bring it up, and this post wasn't it.

My piece of advice is if someone presents an issue to you(or in this case, lemmy at large) and is looking for support or advice on the issue from you, avoid contrasting their issue against other issues at all costs. No matter how well intentioned you are(and I DO believe you were well intentioned, fwiw), at BEST it will come across as "that sucks but others have it worse" and at worst it can come across as "that's not an issue most people have, so thinking it's an issue means you are the problem".

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

This makes sense, and I appreciate you taking the time to write it. I will be more mindful in the future. 👍

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

If you want to be alone so much you should stop replying to posts by trying to make them about yourself.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You might havwe well posted "Some people don't like cheese". It's not relevant to this article

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Mental illness is a spectrum disorder. If you only isolate or focus one form of suffering (i.e. loneliness), then you'll never find a solution or get past the problem.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yes. But ‘what about agoraphobia?’ Isn’t particularly helpful when a group of people are trying to talk about claustrophobia

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

But ‘what about agoraphobia?’

Simply acknowledging agoraphobia provides more understanding and empathy for those experiencing claustrophobia.

The discussion about agoraphobia could end there if the focus is addressing claustrophobia specifically, but it is helpful to know where the two extremes of the spectrum are.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

But if we acknowledge agoraphobia, why are we gratuitously ignoring schizophrenia?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Is schizophrenia on the same spectrum as agoraphobia and claustrophobia? If not, then it's irrelevant.

Two related illnesses (agoraphobia & claustrophobia, or loneliness & being overwhelmed by contact) can be discussed at the same time without conflict.

Discussions about heart disease can naturally include stroke.

Discussions about thyroid cancer can naturally include prostate cancer.

Discussion about irritable bowel disease can naturally include inflammatory bowel disease.

Talking about eye disease by bringing up foot fungus is probably not going to be helpful...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Mental health is a profoundly important and covers a diverse set of widely differing conditions can’t believe that you are shutting down a conversation about schizophrenia because it doesn’t immediately conform to your narrow idea of what the so-called ‘topic’ of the conversation is. Horrific.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's pretty disappointing that in a discussion about mental health, there's a bullying mentality that not only shuts down legitimate conversation, but is intended to demean and humiliate another person.

You should honestly be ashamed of yourself.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

And I’m pretty disappointed that in a discussion as serious about something as the loneliness epidemic that is blighting so many lives, someone tries to side track it onto their own, and quite separate pet subject. But you do you.

[–] TheFonz 9 points 10 months ago

This is like responding to an article about global warming by saying they didn't like the last Disney movie. There is like no correlation!

[–] cdf12345 2 points 10 months ago

Way to take the AllLivesMatter side bro.

[+] LemmyIsFantastic -27 points 10 months ago (3 children)

So kill the Internet I guess 🤷‍♂️?

People do this to themselves. They CHOOSE to stay indoors and play games. They CHOOSE to binge Netflix instead of volunteering. They order delivery instead of going to the restaurant.

And it's because it's easier to sit at home. It's easier to bitch on lemmy then going out and working with your local community, going to local events, and getting up and being social.

It's easier to sit at home and just be angry and bitch at the world through a screen.

[–] FireRetardant 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I get your point here, but even if a person goes against these norms, they still struggle to find other people to interact with. The problem isn't just digital either, the way we build our society impacts this as well. For example, you are far less likely to have a conversation with a car next to you in traffic than someone next to you on the sidewalk or on public transit.

[–] TrickDacy 6 points 10 months ago

Hey now, there was some important trolling going on here. Why you gotta come in here with a reasonable take?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I would say there are a lot of factors. Lack of: money, energy/health, transportation/infrastructure, destinations, time etc.

Anecdotal, but I live in a very small town/village in the US, I'm close to a trail so I got a (weak/cheap+has gears) eBike and I didn't even have it for 4 months before the trail closed for renovations... and 6 months later it still is so I haven't left the house since then. Granted it was more of an activity/utility thing but it was still good mentally and I was still getting into it.

Also see something like Bowling Alone, you probably aren't going to be very social even at a sit-down restaurant as most people probably don't see it as a social thing (aside from maybe the main counter at a bar/diner and even that is subject to unreliable factors).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

This is a simplistic view of the problem without consideration for introvert vs extrovert. Not everyone is able to open up to others as easily. Even though the Internet ceased to exist, this doesn't make it any easier for the introverts.