this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2023
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Slava Ukraïni!
Banderite slogan. https://www.dw.com/en/new-glory-to-ukraine-army-chant-invokes-nationalist-past/a-45215538
How dare someone be proud of a country and want them to be victorious against invaders!
Yeah whatever, it's still a banderite slogan lmao
Bandera? The guy who was imprisoned by Hitler?
Point is, the guy's motivations were singularly around Ukrainian nationalism. Then when Hitler found him inconvenient, he was imprisoned. When judging people's actions, it's best to stay informed about their motives. Especially so when you're trying to cast people as Nazis by two degrees of separation.
And released soon after and pumped with money and send as agent to fight Soviets. You might also read what happened to him after war.
Stalin made a deal with Hitler to split up Poland. Surely anyone who doesn't condemn Stalin's legacy must be essentially a Nazi?
No. I'm saying that in complex wars with many parties, it can be simplistic to label people as dedicated to a cause when they have merely made an alliance of convenience. What you're talking with Zelensky is different. Nazism is a direct threat to his ethnicity.
I'm not sure where Obama enters into it, though. Black people have been killing other Black people in Africa for a long time. When ethnicity is involved, it's usually tribal instead of racial.
Yes, that's why the Ukronazis were killing them and trying to ethnically cleanse them for over 8 years.
This is a fascist slogan.
Quit reddit behavior please. This adds nothing and is not at all useful.
I'm just expressing my hope they will succeed and liberate many more villages and cities, in the most succint way possible. And they will succeed.
You just said 'glory to the heroes'. Which heroes are you wishing glory to? Cause that saying has a history that you are apparently unaware of.
The ones right now (not 70 years ago) defending their country (aka the Ukrainians) from imperialists (russians) who are shelling civilians, kidnapping children, castrating soldiers, raping women. YHave you been keeping up?
Totally agree bro we must secure the existence of our people amirite?
Funnily enough, the Ukrainian constitution does have a line in there like that, although thankfully it has to do with radiation and not... you know.
I don't know, the gene pool comment is weird. Do they think Chernobyl is going to give them superpowers, or are they Banderites?
Not really sure what the discussions were like when it was put in. But it was before the 2014 coup.
Frankly, if the Germans were invaded, it wouldn't excuse starting to use a phrase the traditional Nazi's used, even if the people invading were monsters. In the same way that the swastika is an appropriated symbol, but no longer represents that because something came along that carries far more ... historical weight, shall we say.
If someone invaded the South of the US, I would not be okay with The US starting to use wildly well known confederate slogans.
Also, you just said the Russians are the heroes you were referencing that were defending their country from imperialists who are doing all that bad stuff. I know that isn't what you meant, but that is what you said. Might be worth an edit, if you care.
undefined> Also, you just said the Russians are the heroes you were referencing that were defending their country from imperialists who are doing all that bad stuff. I know that isn’t what you meant, but that is what you said. Might be worth an edit, if you care.
Ah, yes, I meant the russians are doing the evil things.
Unrelated: When you quote me, are intentionally typing undefined? Or is that a weird Lemmy bug?
If you press some of the buttons below the comment editing box, like the Quote or Insert Link button, if the comment box is empty it prepends 'undefined'. Seems like a javascript bug, not handling the case where the box is empty properly.
Thanks!
No but see, 70 years ago, this guy did a bad thing, so now it's basically even Stevens.
You're just parroting fascist slogans
Just things fascists say while they murder Poles and Jews.
you're super and are loved... No need to be the token edgemaster 5000 here.
This was literally what Bandyerites, i.e. fascists that assisted the Nazis and did ethnic cleansing all on their own, used as a rallying cry.
Context is important for meaning.
The nazis used a salute one French painter imagined the Romans using. In the United states kids used to make the same salute to pledge allegiance to the flag. This doesn't make the american kids (nor the Romans) nazis. Becouse the context matters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute
Context is important. The people in Ukraine who started making that a thing again now were, for the most part, all direct descendants of the Nazi collaborators in Ukraine, who are now erecting statues to their Nazi father/grandfathers.
I wish this war hadn't started. The Russians were wrong for invading, but the amount of white-washing of literal Nazis because the Ukrainians are reframing their national identity away from the USSR and Russia is absolute dogshit. The people who used that saying were bad. The people trying to make it a thing now are directly related to those bad people, and don't want them thought of as bad anymore.
All of the justifications people are using now are the same justifications used by assholes promoting the lost cause myth about the civil war.
That's the same sort of twisted interpretation of history that I see out of Republicans in the US. The Democratic Party used to be the party of slavery and the south, so they're practically all slavers today! Black people just laugh at them and continue voting Democrat in droves.
Bad analogy. Better one would be if the Democratic party started to put up statues to Jefferson Davis because the Democratic Party members who were children/grandchildren of Jefferson Davis wanted to re-rehabilitate the image of Jefferson Davis.
I promise you that if the Democratic party started trying to retroactively white wash the confederacy, or specific subsets of the confederacy, in the same exact way the Ukrainians are, that the people that were oppressed by the Democratic Party would no longer vote for them.
I wouldn't extend the Confederacy analogy that far. Ukrainian nationalists were in an enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend situation during WW2, right up until the Gestapo arrested and imprisoned some of them. In contrast, the American Civil War had a singular motive: slavery. WW2 was much more complex, with alliances of convenience between parties that would otherwise be opposed to each other.
Arguably the biggest alliance of convenience was the Allies. The US supplied massive amounts of armaments even before officially entering the war through the "Lend Lease Act". It then continued to be an official ally to the Soviet Union. But almost immediately after Germany and Japan fell, the underlying hostility between the two powers was restored in the form of the Cold War. All that is to say, judging people simply by alliances made during WW2 is a shallow judgement.
so if i understand correctly, you're saying it's ok to do this salute today as long as I'm saying I'm doing the Roman one, not the Nazi one?
Nah dude sorry, context does not matter if the phrase/symbol has been used for fascist terror. That salute (and the phrase above) has been used for fascist ends. It's done and can no longer be used
No, it's not. You are lying.
https://carlbeckpapers.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/cbp/article/download/164/160
This is pretty basic knowledge about OUN-B. They did it all the time, nationalism was kind of their thing, and these chants were rare before the OUN.