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Ukraine war: Kyiv claims first victories of counter-offensive - BBC News (www.bbc.com)

submitted 2 years ago by gressen to c/[email protected]

268 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Ukraine says it has liberated four villages in the south-east, calling these the first settlements won back from Russia since Kyiv's counter-offensive began
On Monday morning, officials reported that "the national flag is once again waving" over Storozhove, in the Donetsk region
A day earlier, footage showed Ukrainian troops celebrating in Blahodatne and Neskuchne - and a minister said nearby Makarivka was also taken
The settlements are relatively small - and Moscow is yet to confirm any retreat
The Institute for the Study of War backs up Kyiv's claims, saying Ukraine captured "multiple settlements" along the frontline over the weekend
On Saturday, President Zelensky acknowledged that the long-awaited counter-offensive was under way

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[+] [email protected] 65 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (96 children)

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[–] Rogue_General 66 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)

Hopefully the exodus from Reddit will help drown out the authoritarian-worship here.

Yes, my Russian-sympathizing friends. You can certainly classify the actions of Russia and China as imperialist & bad too, and it will not detract from the imperialist & bad stuff the US or "the West" has done. Most humans can walk and chew gum at the same time, you can too!

Edit: My first downvote here! Looks like there are indeed some people who can't walk and chew gum at the same time :P

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 years ago

It's shit like this that makes this one of the hardest wars to follow. Before that, it was Syria.

The Russian commanders, who were wrong to invade, have learned a lot since the initial invasion. It's the same reason that Assads army was much better after they lost a lot of their soldiers. When you have a lot of your army die, on average, the ones remaining are the ones who managed to stay alive who, again on average, are now much more experienced combat troops.

The Russians did exactly what Ukraine did during the Russian offensive. They pulled back behind their minefields, and then used artillery to drop more mines on the assaulting force that was in the process of clearing mines. This was the same tactic that the Ukrainians used to great success that caused a bunch of Russian tanks to be blown up in columns in Vulhedar.

Remember, good things happen to bad people and bad things happen to good people. If the basis of your view of why you think a given side is losing is because you don't like them, then you aren't actually interested in the war. Just in cheerleading your team.

Honestly, I can't understand the strategic goal of how the Ukrainians are running this particular offensive. It truly seems to be to spend as much Ukrainian blood to secure western financial and logistical support. Not to actually gain territory they can hold. At least, that's my best guess with articles like this in the American media: Politico

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 years ago (10 children)

I understand this is a positive news in the first week of the counter offensive, but to me - it makes me feel depressed.

It makes me look at the size of Ukraine and the occupied areas. There are thousands or probably ten thousands of occupied settlements and villages. Reporting 5 of e.g. 18.000 liberated... it is positive, it is a news, it makes me depressed looking at the scaled of what lies ahead in this war to get Russia out of Ukraine.

The thing I am hoping for and expecting, that this is not a continuous speed. In the past, we have seen Russian lines disintegrate, troops flee in civilian clothing and the front lines moved tens of kilometers within a single day.

[–] gressen 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I understand we're you're coming from but I think that's a wrong way to look at it. The villages and towns rarely are equal in the face of front-line activities - some offer great defense opportunities and can be held for months. Most are strategically unimportant and their freedom is reclaimed by battles fought in other locations. History books are full of small town names that have witnessed grand battles and sometimes a victory over a small patch of land can translate to a much greater victory later on.

Edit: typo

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I think it's what you said, it is not continuous speed. The offensive may slow down, may accelerate - let's be honest, there is even the chance of failure. However, looking at the last 6-9 months, we should be optimistic. The recapture of a small village may not seem impactful, for people who were born there, lived there until the war or even still live there under Russian oppression - it means the world to them.

[–] takeda 8 points 2 years ago

The recapture of a small village may not seem impactful, for people who were born there, lived there until the war or even still live there under Russian oppression - it means the world to them.

That's right. There were many examples, but even with the recent ones like destroying dams is clear they don't care about the people, they care about the land. And even ethnic Russians don't want to be under their control.

[–] _ak 13 points 2 years ago

Just remember how Kharkiv oblast was liberated in September 2022. Ukraine made some progress in the weeks before, which put enough pressure on the Russian occupiers to make the continued occupation untenable, so they had to pull back into Luhansk.

Something similar could easily happen here, all it needs is a cirumvention of the defense fortifications to push far enough to disrupt e.g. the supply lines between Donetsk and Crimea, and significant parts of the occupation could crumble quickly.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago

Ukraine will need to push through the first and second lines of defense, where the Russians are extremely dug in. Once they breech those fortifications it should become like driving a scalpel through Russian defenses.

If they manage to go through the first lines of defense, they'll operationally encircle a lot of Russian positions on the west, either prompting the Russian forces to retreat or get trapped in the pocket.