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Jews in Israel and internationally, please Stand up to your government. You know this is wrong. Kill the babies? Listen to what they are saying.
Your government is fucked up. You have let fear and revenge drive your country to madness. Look in your hearts, would a loving and just God want this? I don't care what any book says, look in your heart. You know this is wrong.
Every western government has been complicit in this genocide. USA most of all. None of this could have occurred had it not been for the funding and the diplomatic cover provided by our governments. It's up to all of us to make it stop.
Lets not include Spain and the Republic of Ireland on it, who have even tried to get the EU to sanction Israel for this.
But yeah, the rest are a disgrace, after the US especially Germany, who once again because of the etnicity of the aggressors, unwaveringly supports their committing of genocide along etnic lines and were the political and media "elites" even deploy Goebbels-style propaganda on this against its own populations. It was pretty dissapointing for me to see that whilst the national socialist party of the german worker is gone (though at the hands of others, not because it was kicked out by the Germans themselves), their cold violent racist ways are alive and well, at least amongst the German "elites".
Oh yeah? Pray tell, how do we do that? And mind you, you've also got Iran in play, Egypt is doing its thing, and they would both react in their own way.
Like would you suggest NATO troops on the ground? How do you think Hamas would react to that?
What tactics has the West utilized against Russia that they have not employed against Israel?
Economic sanctions. Apply them to Israeli leadership in the military and in politics. Plus Business leaders and bankers. Prevent Israeli banking institutions "from accessing SWIFT, the international system for financial transactions, and restricting access to Western financial markets." Ban Israeli access to international goods and services import as well as export. Let's see how long their military can go without oil.
Well, I think the US public has been pretty vocal about this compared to most issues. People are really pissed at Biden. So don't change the subject.
I think it's time we start publicly shaming Israelis and Jews who don't make strong statements condemning the murder of civilians and protesting the reckless-at-best and seemingly genocidal actions of their government.
This is about Zionism. It's not about Jews. If you make it about Jews you are falling for the Zionist tactic of equating the two. Do better
Really I just meant the international community of Jewish people. Many of them have strong opinions about matters related to Israel.
As a member of the international community of Jews, I think what Israel is doing is monstrous and disgusting. But I am in no way responsible for what they do. I don’t live there, I’ve never been there, and I have zero ability to influence Israeli policy beyond expressing my disapproval, which I often do.
Stop spreading the misinformation that Israel = all Jews.
I understand your frustration at what I am saying, but I believe you have more influence over the Israeli people than I do as a non-jew. Am I wrong? I just imagine that Israeli jews would take more seriously and be more introspective after receiving critical comments from a fellow Jewish person, who presumably is more in tune with the worries and historical context of the Jewish community than a non Jewish person is.
My opinion is more easily decried as antisemitic or ignorant and waved away. Yours is not.
When Christians do horrible things in the name of god, don't you think being called out by other Christians is going to carry some more weight?
What would make you think this? Just because we happen to share an ethnicity doesn’t mean an entire nation will listen to me or give me any entitlement to tell them what to do. Nor is it my responsibility, as a Jew.
And people who make decisions based on ancient mythology aren’t exactly making rational decisions in the first place, so I don’t know why an appeal on that basis would work. I may be a Jew, but I’m also an atheist. The last thing this situation needs is more religion.
Unfortunately, there's no commonly accepted distinction between Jews who practice Judaism, Zionists, and ethnic Jews, At least not that I'm aware of. I do recognize that there is a difference, And if I were you, I would be pointing out the difference also.
I'm sorry, man.It sounds like this is rough for you to be tied to these people by the Jewish label. I hope sometime in this century. All this b******* gets sorted out For everyone's sake.
The difference between Jews and Zionists is the same as between Christians and Christo-Fascists.
Believers vs. Believers who believe they need to be in control because God picked them and all others are lesser.
Folks are welcome to believe what they want to believe, it's when they want to use that belief to restrict other people that it's a problem.
Yes there is— you just listed them. And what i find especially despicable is people like you who speak out of both sides of your mouth while disingenuously trying to appear “understanding” and civil. If you really felt bad for anyone, you wouldn’t be here making accusations and “just asking questions” in bad faith, trying to provoke an argument.
I said commonly accepted. I'm sorry, but those distinctions are lost on the general public.And what we need is the general public to put pressure on politicians. But sure, whatever, Let's get pissy and fight amongst ourselves. I'm sure that will help.
And don't compare me to that just asking questions Tucker Carlson, bullshit. I don't care where you live. I don't think it's a big ask for someone to stand up and say killing civilians is a bad thing.
It’s pretty arrogant of you to think you get to speak for the “general public”. And you weren’t asking for someone to stand up and say killing civilians is a bad thing— you have been saying that I, as a Jew, should lecture all of Israel about what they’re doing and they they should listen just because I happen to be a Jew also. Did you suddenly get struck by amnesia and forget what you’ve been saying this whole time? Because you can scroll up and review your past comments if you forgot what you said. Everyone else who’s read this far sure saw what you said.
You say you don’t want to be compared to Tucker Carlson, then I suggest you drop his bad faith, bs “debate” style.
Yes, you should, as a Jew lecture all of Israel. The entire premise of Israel is based on the fact that Jews Have a divine Right and responsibility bestowed upon them by god. You are a Jew and therefore they should take you seriously based on that responsibility. Bestowed upon you by God, even if you don't believe it, they supposedly do.
No I don't expect you to change the world being one voice.I expect everyone together to raise their voices.And the overwhelming majority of voices together decrying atrocities to work against injustice can make the difference.
I can't say "as a Jew think you guys are f****** morons," but you can! So calm the f*** down, get over yourself, realize that I'm not accusing you of anything and stop being so f****** defensive and just do your part.
For one, you can say fuck on the internet, and for two, who are you to give out such ridiculous orders?
Speech to text censors stuff unless I go back and fix it.
And two yes I was being a bit of an asshole last night. See my new reply if you care.
it's a reasonable reply, fair play to you
Fuck man, I've been reading this exchange and you sound a bit unhinged. Some random Jewish person living half a world away has no influence whatsoever on the actions of Israel. Do note that the person you're arguing with has already spoken out against Israel's actions in this very thread! But there's nothing more they can do about it. They're just a rando online, nobody in any position in power is going to give a fuck about what they say. Or what you say. Or what I say, for that matter. Putting all this shit on their shoulders (or anyone else not in Israel - or in a position of power elsewhere) is deranged.
The only people who can change anything about it are Israelis themselves, their government or foreign governments (maybe large corporations? But why would they as long as they make money, right?) by putting pressure on Israel. Nobody else. Certainly not some poor schmuck you decided to berate on Lemmy. Get over yourself.
I read your post and looked back and I apologized to the other poster. I was angry about the situation and drinking last night, not that drinking gives me permission to be an asshole.
Well you certainly have clearly articulated your ignorant prejudices and bigotries, but I still have yet to hear a reason why I, as a Jew, am responsible for the actions of Israel nor why my voice should matter to them just because I’m a Jew.
Your not responsible for their actions and I dont think I ever said that.
Look, I'm sorry I came at you so hard last night. I was drinking and I'm pissed off that there is a genocide going on that I feel like I can do fuck all about. Guess part of me wants to put it on other people since I feel helpless about it.
In retrospect saying we should publicly shame jews around the world for not going out of their way to scream publicly about a government that does not represent them - is stupid. I'm just frustrated and mad. I do think Israelis in the country should stand up to their government but you are right, Israelis and other jews are two very different groups of people.
I do think your voice probably carries more weight to at least some Israelis, but again, it's not your responsibility.
I applaud your willing to say you were wrong and that you were emotional and drunk. I still believe you were very wrong, but it's laudable to admit to that and recognize it.
I used to drink way too much, so I understand, trust me.
Are you deliberately trying to use the same language as was used against Muslims 20 years ago?
No, I guess I don't get your reference, unless you are referring to 911?
If so it would be the Americans needing to condemn their government for invading Iraq, not the Muslims condemning 911.
Not exactly like every Jew is Israeli, in fact Israel is the one trying to force the narrative that they are, because it reinforces that narrative to those Jews when people actually do antisemitic shit
It's a settler recruitment strategy.
Not to mention the view that being anti-genocide is antisemitic - a deeply stupid, dishonest, antisemitic position that gives the best possible justification one could give for the extermination of the Jews.
Jewish people have nothing to do with Israel. There is no greater burden on them than us
Perfect example of the antisemitism channeled by this war...
Same kind of bullshit of asking a random Muslim on the street to denounce IS when they bombed something...
Exactly.
Is that guy part of the government?
Linker, this may be the stupidest thing you've ever said.