this post was submitted on 14 Feb 2024
696 points (95.0% liked)

politics

19087 readers
4178 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

e; I wrote a better headline than the ABC editors decided to and excerpted a bit more

According to the poll, conducted using Ipsos' Knowledge Panel, 86% of Americans think Biden, 81, is too old to serve another term as president. That figure includes 59% of Americans who think both he and former President Donald Trump, the Republican front-runner, are too old and 27% who think only Biden is too old.

Sixty-two percent of Americans think Trump, who is 77, is too old to serve as president. There is a large difference in how partisans view their respective nominees -- 73% of Democrats think Biden is too old to serve but only 35% of Republicans think Trump is too old to serve. Ninety-one percent of independents think Biden is too old to serve, and 71% say the same about Trump.

Concerns about both candidates' ages have increased since September when an ABC News/Washington Post poll found that 74% of Americans thought Biden -- the oldest commander in chief in U.S. history -- was too old to serve another term as president, and 49% said the same about Trump.

Archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20240214133801/https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/poll-americans-on-biden-age/story?id=107126589

Part that drew my eye,

The poll also comes days after the Senate failed to advance a bipartisan foreign aid bill with major new border provisions.

Americans find there is blame to go around on Congress' failure to pass legislation intended to decrease the number of illegal crossings at the U.S.-Mexico border -- with about the same number blaming the Republicans in Congress (53%), the Democrats (51%) and Biden (49%). Fewer, 39%, blame Trump.

More Americans trust that Trump would do a better job of handling immigration and the situation at the border than Biden -- 44%-26% -- according to the poll.

So that bipartisan border bill stunt was terrible policy, and it doesn't seem to have done anything for the Democratic party politically

Can we please stop trying to compromise with fascists now?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] go_go_gadget -1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Honestly, this sounds like an attempt to excuse the people who voted for him in the primaries but the reality is there is no good excuse. There were much better options. Voting for Biden in the primaries was selfish and foolish. If we aren't clear about that the people making selfish and foolish decisions in the primaries will continue to make selfish and foolish decisions.

[–] Linkandluke 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

For curiosity sake, what's selfish about voting for Biden?

[–] go_go_gadget 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Give me an example of a reason to vote for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries that wasn't selfish or foolish.

[–] Linkandluke 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I understand there are arguments to be made about it being foolish. I don't agree but I could understand the arguments.

My question is how is it selfish? There are infinite reasons why it's not selfish. For example, maybe you like moderates. Maybe you didn't want trump to win and you thought he was the best candidate. Maybe you like that he likes ice cream. Maybe you closed your eyes and picked randomly. None of these are selfish reasons. I struggle to think of a selfish reason to vote Biden, unless you are Biden voting for yourself.

[–] go_go_gadget -2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They ignored the voices and pleas of progressive and leftist voices who have been suffering under establishment Democrat leadership. Rather than find a compromise candidate they chose the epitome of establishment Democrat expecting that those voices would show up to vote for him anyway.

That's selfish in my view.

[–] Linkandluke 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Would you agree for the same logic for Republicans.

By voting a progressive leader, we would be ignoring the voices and pleas of those who have been suffering under the established Democrat leadership? Is this selfish?

What about of the roles were reversed? What if we had a progressive leader for the last 4 years and the moderates wanted Biden now. Would we be ignoring the voices and pleas of the moderates to keep our current progressive in? Is this also selfish?

[–] go_go_gadget 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You and I already came to the understanding that you are you applying your judgement consistently. I'm fine with your judgements against me so long as you apply them to moderates.

[–] Linkandluke 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

At this point, I think any vote toward Trump's main opposition is the correct vote. Anything else is, to use your word, foolish if you don't want fascism.

Meaning voting third party (or not voting) because your candidate isn't progressive/moderate/anything enough, is as good as voting for Trump.

[–] go_go_gadget 0 points 9 months ago

Again. That's fine. Just remember that in the 2028 primaries.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

You say "better options" but a clear majority of Democrats thought Biden was the better option. And all the other candidates that anyone took seriously are in the same age range as them. Nobody younger knocked on the door with a platform really worth backing. Buttigieg had no Federal chops whatsoever, Harris was a freaking prosecutor.

Or if you're just talking "better in general", then you're talking about the Progressives war. Bernie still hasn't realized he'll never win a Primary, and the way his campaign sabotaged and undercut Warren's with necessary voting demographics was a killshot. Grassroot movements to call her a secret Republican. They should be ashamed of themselves.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Didn't Warren's campaign just shoot itself in the foot, trying to play political games rather than focusing on things like policies? I never saw anyone call her a secret Republican. Just someone who picked incompetent people who run her campaign.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I mean....no. Her campaign was arguably the polar opposite of that to her detriment. She said she wanted to do something. Then she wrote up a detailed plan for it and published it, letting the other candidates find something in the details they didn't like and tear it apart.

She's a policy wonk who is a law professor first and a politician second.

I never saw anyone call her a secret Republican

There were a lot of "grassroots" youtube videos that came out and took lines of hers out of context. They would softball questions like "Warren is just as good as Bernie because they vote the same a lot, right? WRONG! Warren is a capitalist pretending to be progressive to steal your vote". And those grassroot video efforts started to trace back to Sanders campaign leadership. Nobody ever quite confirmed if Bernie directly knew his campaign was doing it, but the rule is usually that the campaign's action sare the candidate's responsibility.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

She was doing fine when the focus was on policy. Then it turned to weird personal attacks and gotchas, and people stopped caring.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

She was specifically asked if she had a conversation with Bernie where he said a very specific sentence. Nobody knows where the media got that information, but she answered truthfully and moved on. Then Bernie denied it up and down and turned it political.

How do we know who told the truth? Because they hot-micced her at the end trying to talk to him, shocked at how he accused her of lying on national TV.

If one had anything bad to say about Warren it's that she didn't know how to fight dirty anymore than Mcain did in his campaign. I'd buy that.

[–] go_go_gadget -3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

You say “better options” but a clear majority of Democrats thought Biden was the better option.

Were they right?

[–] nomous 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You're asking for an opinion.

A majority of Democrats thought Biden was the better option and despite the complaints of terminally online leftists, it appears they still do.

[–] go_go_gadget -1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yes I'm asking what your opinion is.

[–] nomous 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I personally liked Bernie but he sounded like a broken record at times. In hindsight I have my doubts he'd have won in the general anyway. Biden was easily the strongest candidate, who do you think was better?

[–] go_go_gadget -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

Biden was easily the strongest candidate

This is an admission you believe people would rather lose to fascists than compromise with leftists.

I won't be voting for Biden in 2024. I will be voting 3rd party.

who do you think was better?

Anyone but Biden or Bloomberg was a better choice.

[–] Linkandluke 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you are voting third party, instead of for Biden. Aren't you saying you'd rather lose to fascist then vote for Biden?

Because at the end of the day, it's Biden vs Trump. A vote for Biden, is be a vote against Trump and vice versa.

[–] go_go_gadget -1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you are voting third party, instead of for Biden. Aren’t you saying you’d rather lose to fascist then vote for Biden?

You could certainly make that argument. Would that make me selfish and foolish?

[–] Linkandluke 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you don't want fascism, I be would say it's foolish. I be wouldn't say it's selfish tho. I don't really understand what selfish about it.

[–] go_go_gadget 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Do you have the same judgement for moderates?

[–] Linkandluke 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] go_go_gadget 0 points 9 months ago

Great! I appreciate your support!

[–] nomous 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Brother I don't even think the vast majority of the electorate can define fascist much less decide they'd rather have that than compromise with leftists.

Anyone but Biden or Bloomberg was a better choice.

Clinging to ideological purity while you lose elections isn't how you get a seat at the table. It's how you lose.

[–] go_go_gadget -2 points 9 months ago

I have the same message for moderates.

I won't be voting for Joe Biden in the 2024 primaries. I will be voting 3rd party. When they're ready to let go of their ideological purity and compromise with leftists and progressives I'll be here.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

He did better than he promised at basically everything. I really wanted someone who would push the envelope to the Left, but he never promised that and a lot of Democratic voters didn't want that anyway. He did recover us from COVID and dramatically improve the economy. He attempted some things that were more progressive than I expected of him, with various levels of success.

EDIT: he also compromised more with the Left than any president since Carter. Not much, but something

[–] go_go_gadget -3 points 9 months ago

Sounds like you're fine with the way things are working then.

I will not be voting for Joe Biden in 2024. I will be voting 3rd party.