according to @Custoslibera’s post
this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2024
807 points (97.2% liked)
196
16542 readers
3475 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Not a single person on the left has ever said math is raciat. That was something Tucker Carlson wholesale made up after we started asking why black kids did worse in school. As for "black lives matter" I'd say that's pretty self-evident, and the only possible rebuttal ("don't white lives matter too?") has a one sentence counter ("obviously. but white lives aren't under threat right now.")
More to the point, respectability politics in general is a trap. We could have better slogans, that's true, especially in the "getting people on our side" phase, but compromising what we believe in to be more palatable to moderates, even in the slightest, is unacceptable. "Sure, I'm cool with trans people (maybe I'm even trans myself), but neopronouns are where I draw the line" is their in. Once conservatives see that we admit some point is too far to our side, once they see the bubble of people we protect can shrink, they won't stop until it's shrunk all the way.
I wouldn't go so far as calling those people leftists (same as tankies aren't leftists) but "math is racist" is definitely a thing that happens. People were suing in Canada that the tests to become accredited as teacher includes maths tests, and because some statistic somewhere showed that black folks score statistically lower on maths, they claimed that the requirement to pass it is racist. That completely ignored that they could re-take the test as often as they pleased and that plenty of education was given to prospective teachers that enabled them to pass those tests. A lower court agreed with the claim of racial discrimination, the constitutional court then struck it down pretty much saying "lulwut" in legalese.
No, maths is not racist. The people claiming it is racist were the racists here, thinking that being black makes you somehow inherently incapable of passing those tests, so much that you can't even pass them with studying. Also I bet the disparity in maths scores by skin colour vanishes if you control for socio-economic status but the complainants would've needed maths to understand that so they didn't.
OTOH, optically those kinds of fucks are associated with leftism and I'd say it's important to openly respond to that kind of silliness with "lulwut" before the courts get around to doing it.
As to black lives matter: I think it was a strategic mistake to oppose "all lives matter". The slogan, that is, not the racist fucks. Instead, it should've immediately been appropriated by the movement precisely to define it and to leave no doubt in anyone's mind that you don't mean "non-black lives don't matter", which is understandably a reading lots of people had because they're projecting their own racism, or just racist realism.
Neopronouns are an enby thing, not trans and yes I'm completely fine with calling you they/them and have no issues with your ingroup using as many different pronouns as there are members, but I'm not going to fucking remember all of them. I very much draw a hard, red, line at "difficult on purpose" as that would validate people's vulnerable narcissism, "prove that you don't hate me by jumping over random hoops I come up with". Leftism is not the defence of maladaptive personality traits.
Just to shoot myself in the foot, the meaning behind "math is racist" is a nuanced discussion, but it wasn't the left who distilled the idea down to "math is racist", it was Fucker.
My problem is with phrases which fail to capture the meaning behind the words, phrases which are vague or easy to strawman, and phrases which are needlessly imflammatory.
There are many more which bother me but I'm drawing a blank. Thanks metacognition
I stand corrected, though it says a lot that I believed that there would be a group from the left making that claim.
Yes, says a lot about where you source your information and that you don't fact check enough.
Nobody fact checks enough. I'm sure you're wrong about things every day. There's no shame in admitting I was wrong, so cool your jets.
Case and point: your claim liberal ≠ leftist.
You're wrong about that. I'm not going to hang shit on you for being wrong, but it is hypocritical.
Case in point.
Neat.
I always figured it as "this is my case, and my point"
Thanks!
No I'm not. Google could've told you that.
I did google it (well, duckduckgo) and the definition is the one I've been posting. By the primary definition, liberal does mean progressive in every way.
I've got a news flash for you, bud: dictionary definitions don't tell you everything.
Here is the first DuckDuckGo result for "liberal vs leftist"
Please read it and get back to me
This discusses the political liberal parties in a US/british context.
The liberal parties do not hold the beliefs as defined below.
Which of these are not leftist ideals?
What you are describing is progressivism, which is a rather broad umbrella encompassing both leftism and liberalism. Since it's apparently my job to explain this to you, leftists think the rich should pay their fair share whereas liberals are pretty fond of billionaires all things considered.
Here's the second DDG result for the same query. I find it answers the question much more satisfactorily
What I'm describing is liberal ideology, as it is what the definition of liberal is when you look it up.
This is my last post responding to the definition of what liberal is, I don't care any more.