this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2023
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Just look up how many hundreds of thousands of Palestinians Israel has killed in the last 30 years. Israel is the bad guy here, it's not debatable.
Why does there have to be a singular "the" bad guy?
And why the need to lump a huge group together to lay that blame?
The Israeli government and Hamas both share the blame for all of this, among others.
As is too common in the world, while a relatively small group deserves the blame, many more, on both sides, suffer the consequences.
Because one side is attempting genocide. That makes them the bad guy, regardless of whatever they claim Hamas did to them. Claiming Hamas is as bad as the Israeli government is the same as claiming the Jews were equally at fault with the Nazis.
Hamas's goal is explicitly to genocide Israel. They just don't have the resources.
Where have they ever claimed to want to genocide Israeli people? That’s just a lie Zionist use to justify their own atrocities. It has no basis in fact.
I don't have a subscription but this article claims to cover both charters of Hamas in that respect.
Are you aware that Hamas's charter has the explicit objective of the complete eradication of the Israeli state? The PLO is also not very different in this aspect. So where do you get this "one side is attempting genocide" talking point from?
Yeah, groups tend to want an end to the group genociding them. I get it from the actual facts, such as the 10 to 1 discrepancy in palestinian deaths vs Israeli.
That’s such a disingenuous comparison. The end of the Israeli state means an end to the apartheid system upon which the state is built. It does not mean the genocide of Israeli civilians. Claiming otherwise is just propaganda meant to justify Israel’s own campaign of ethnic cleansing.
Wait a minute. You think Hamas's charter is about the end of the Israeli statehood ad in the country? They are explicitly talking about unaliving every Jew in existence. Holy shit. You haven't read anything have you?
If that’s the case and not just a blatant lie, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind quoting where in their charter they explicitly say that.
Not the person you replied to, but:
https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm
Also some fun sections
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter#Text_of_the_1988_charter
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/
I like that we have to hold your hand and walk you through every step of the way for you to even concede an inch. But holy hell you get to screech nonsense left and right like it's gospel. It's clear you have a limited understanding of who Hamas or the PLO are. Don't worry, I'll follow up with the receipts even though I know you'll shift the goalposts again.
So where’s the quote then? Where are the receipts you’re talking about? All I see are personal attacks and nothing of substance.
I posted the quotes from Hamas' 1988 charter, so that others following the thread will see what they're really about and not get gaslit by useful idiots who gloss over their intent to simply kill every Israeli and their complete disregard for any peaceful solution.
I just saw that thanks. I worry that people are unable to have nuanced conversation. It's either supporting genocide or liberating Palestine. There is no in between.
Or simply acknowledging that maybe, just maybe firing rockets indiscriminately into Israel is a bad thing and that the IDF is responding to the 10/7 massacre and the continued threat of the ongoing rocket attacks.
"But the Israelis are good at dodging the rockets and shooting them down, so the rockets aren't that big of a deal!"
Like, FFS.
Now that someone posted the quotes you just downvote without replying?
What’s the point? If you really think those quotes mean Hamas wants to “unalive” every Jewish person in existence then you need to work on your reading comprehension. I can’t help anyone with that.
I knew it! You are bad faith all around.
Whatever floats your boat.
No but you see, if you’re homeless and the authorities tell you to take shelter in my house, and then you start killing my family members to try and take over the house… if I defend my house… I’m the bad guy bc you where homeless before.