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Exactly. I'm sure they're pissed at Biden for his position on Israel. Justifiably. But Trump already has a track record of being bigoted when it comes to Muslims and already talks about oppressing them, so this seems like cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
I think it’s just shitty they have to choose between their families getting attacked in the Middle East and their families getting attacked in America.
What a terrible system of government.
I agree with you 100%, but that's the reality of the situation. We should have anything but FPTP voting in this country so people like American Muslims don't have to make faustian bargains, but I hope they realize they do have to make that bargain if they wish to retain their rights.
That’s the neat part about this system: Even if they do vote there’s a decent chance Biden still loses and they lose their rights anyway.
This entire world is fucked.
It's great that voters have to adapt to politicians instead of the other way around.
I never even implied it was great. Reality is often not great. It's still reality and the reality is it's going to be either Trump or Biden barring Trump not being allowed on ballots. So they only have two choices and not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump. That sucks, but that's just how it is going to work in 2024. Nothing is going to change in terms of U.S. elections over the next year and to expect that is a folly.
The reality is that American Muslims are not going to like who is president regardless. I hope they think about who is less likely to oppress them and that isn't Trump.
It's great for the politicians who think they are in a position to demand unconditional fealty, and the people who matter to them. If the party doesn't want people to act like they're being taken advantage of, the party just has to stop taking advantage of people.
People who have never been betrayed by the party they vote for sure love to lecture people who have.
Excuse me, but you don't know a fucking thing about me. As a disabled person, the Democratic Party betrayed me by not implementing single payer healthcare. You know what's worse? Anything Trump has in mind. So no, I don't like Democrats. I vote for them because the worst Democrat is better than the best Republican and those are the only two valid options right now.
Wasn't talking about you. Were you lecturing me?
You were talking to me. Sure seemed like you were talking about me. And I can't know what someone else on the internet would consider a lecture, but it considering I've been told I was lecturing by writing a paragraph, I could very well have been lecturing you from your perspective.
Well then, I'm sorry your party betrayed you. I'm sorry they betrayed me, too.
It recently betrayed people who will withhold their votes because of that betrayal. I'm sorry it betrayed them too.
What do you suppose they thought was gonna happen if they kept betraying people? That everyone would be as willing to stick with people who betray them as you and I are?
The party is playing its voters for suckers, and never once imagined that this might make people less willing to participate in a system like that.
And if they are less willing to participate, Trump gets in. And it gets worse for them. So, as I said, not voting or voting for Trump is not going to help them. Feeling betrayed won't change the fact that there are only two options and one is inherently worse than the other.
Ok. Now that you've said the thing to someone who is already gonna vote the way you want, we're still where we started.
No amount of wagging your finger at me is gonna change the political reality I described. The party betrayed them, and the party lost their votes.
Treating your constituents like hostages isn't consequence-free.
Scolding me about it isn't gonna change their minds, but I get the feeling that you're gonna do it again anyway.
What the ever-living fuck? Your first comment to me was scolding and you haven't stopped scolding me since. Would you like me to quote you?
My god, the hypocrisy of that.
Oh, I thought my first comment to you was expecting you to run the entire Democratic Party because you knew that speculation was going to result in answers you didn't want to say.
Guess you stopped pretending.
I never said you expected me to run the entire Democratic Party. Why are you lying now?
EDIT: Proof you're lying-
Doesn't sound like a response to scolding to me.
As I showed in my edit where I pasted it, that is expressly not saying you expected me to run the party. I'm not sure why you're doubling down on your lie.
So, what part of that was scolding?
Gaslight even harder. It's all centrists do.
I'm a fucking socialist. Stop lying.
You know, fuck this. I have no respect for people who pretend they know what I believe politically. Especially ableists like you. Blocked.
If you say so.
Here- I'll even expand it to show your lie in greater detail.
Please triple and quadruple down. That should be rich.
That wasn't a lie. As your screenshot clearly shows, I asked questions that you didn't want to answer, so instead you freaked out and pretended that I was acting like you control the party.
Now, what part of my comment was scolding? Because that was a massive lie on your part.
No, you asked me questions I couldn't answer. I didn't freak out or pretend anything. Those are lies. The screenshots prove they are lies.
As far as scolding, here's just one example:
Of course, once you found out I was disabled, you claimed you weren't talking about me, which is clearly nonsense.
Now, unless you are going to admit you lied, I think I can safely block you and move on to scolding other people for choosing to vote the way they feel is the best way to vote.
Except with speculation. But you and I both know the answer to my questions because not only have Democrats done it before when Clinton lost to Trump, they do it every time some group they've alienated and betrayed doesn't turn out for them.
That's not the very first thing I said to you, as you claimed. And there's no scolding in that comment. I wasn't telling you to do anything any different from what you were doing. But I will now: Don't expect to be able to nag people into voting for people who betray them. It doesn't work in all cases, no matter how many times apologists redouble their efforts. Particularly if the people you're being self-righteous at aren't even the people who are withholding their votes.
The only thing you've accomplished in this entire thread is patting yourself on the back for sticking with a party that betrayed us both. That won't get any votes to return. We're right back where we started. The same people who are withholding their votes are still withholding their votes. That hasn't changed. Lectures work on me, but not them. How do you suppose we should get them back? What should we advocate for the party to do? Any ideas? Mine involve the party changing its ways and treating people whose votes it needs like it needs their votes, but that won't happen.
Consider this: during the Trump years, Democrats opposed Trump's bigoted actions against Muslims. During the Biden administration, Democrats are supporting the nation that's bombing refugee camps. Those who came here as refugees might take that not only as an indicator that they were used for political utility and then tossed aside when it became expedient to do so, but also as an indicator that the only way to get either party on their side is to have Republicans in office. That's not a great place for the Democratic party to be.
Or don't consider it. And move on to scolding other people for choosing to vote contrary to your sense of entitlement.
We absolutely do not “have to.” This is the slightly less overtly fascist party daring us to find someone better. We absolutely can.
Cool. Who?
When a battered partner for whom you have zero understanding of why they don’t just leave, what are you going to say?
So, are Democrats going to adapt to this reality?
Or are they gonna demand enthusiastic support regardless of their behavior and start blaming people they already regarded with withering contempt when that doesn't work?
I'm not sure why you're asking me as if I control them.
So no and yes in that order.
Again- I don't control them. Why are you granting me powers I don't have?
Because just like battered partners will find it hard to reclaim their power, they can * reclaim their power; and we can too.
Edited for formatting
I was initially asking you to speculate. Since you refused, I answered for you.
You never asked me to speculate.
Sorry. Next time I want you to not pretend I'm expecting you to have perfect control over a major political party, I'll make sure to preface any questions with something that makes it clear that I'm asking you to speculate and not disclose the party's plans for the future.
This is just another iteration in the infinite loop of “blue no matter who.” We could’ve had Kucinich but the media conglomerates did their overlords’ bidding and silenced him. We could’ve had a lot of human, but infinitely more decent pols. They either ended up dead or received media silence. Funny how tfg continues to get plenty of coverage.
So how do we get there from here?
Go look up Biden’s voting record.
What specifically in Biden's voting record means he will oppress Muslims more than Trump will? You tell me. He has a very long voting record, so telling me to look it up is not especially informative or helpful.
Lol he has been in politics for like 50 years.
While your at it, why not look up your childhood friends? I’m sure they are in a phonebook.
The democrats also actively work against minorities. The difference is that you guys try to hide it, when the republicans are honest about hating people who aren't middle-class whites.
Are you actually claiming that Democrats are as oppressive and dangerous to minorities as Republicans? Because that's some "enlightened centrist" bullshit.
I'm a militant leftist, thank you. And as long as democrats are voting with republicans to increase police militarization and immunity, and to fund genocides in the middle east, I don't wanna hear any liberal bullshit from you about how your side is better. You're murdering too, you just like to pretend you aren't because you want our votes.
I see, so because they both take the same very abhorrent position on Israel, there's no difference between them on any other important issue. Got it. Also, when my voting strategy is 'don't let Republicans get into office under any circumcstances,' I'm not sure how the Democratic party is 'my side' except in that we have the same political end goals. Perhaps you could explain that.
If your voting for politicians because you think they aren't as bad as the other side, then you're perpetuating the problem. You're not solving anything, you're just encouraging the democrats to continue doing absolutely nothing while in power that doesn't benefit their corporate sponsors. That's what people refer to as a bootlicker. But keep patting yourself on the back like you actually did something helpful. I would hate for you to have to actually confront your participation in the oppression of minorities.
Do you think anyone other than Biden or Trump is likely to be president of the U.S. after 2024? Otherwise I'm not sure how voting for one over the other perpetuates anything. I can't control the fact that it's those two and no one else. That's reality. Insulting me won't make reality any less reality.
And if you'd read a little bit, you'd see I'm disabled, so I am a minority that is oppressed, thank you.