this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2023
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Sarah Katz, 21, had a heart condition and was not aware of the drink’s caffeine content, which exceeded that of cans of Red Bull and Monster energy drinks combined, according to a legal filing

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[–] jordanlund 46 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Just looking at the photo in the article, it looks clear to me how much caffeine is in it:

Unclear if that's a "before" or "after" photo though.

[–] [email protected] 66 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If I saw that, I wouldn't really have any idea how much 260mg of caffeine is, compared to your average espresso shot. IMHO there probably should be some kind of upper limit to the amount of caffeine you can put in a drink (or at least be forced to call it something other than 'lemonade').

[–] glimse 32 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah I doubt most coffee/tea/soda drinkers could tell you how much caffeine is in their drinks. 260mg means nothing to me without a baseline

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

...which is why the sign also says it's as much caffeine as coffee.

[–] FlightyPenguin 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That part is actually what's misleading. I don't know anybody who gets 20 or 30 oz cups of dark roast drip coffee. 10 oz is a more reasonable size. A more useful comparison would be that one lemonade is like having two or three dark roast coffees.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm guessing you're not in the US with your thoughts on drink sizes, but remember that this happened in the US.

That part is actually what’s misleading. I don’t know anybody who gets 20 or 30 oz cups of dark roast drip coffee. 10 oz is a more reasonable size

A Dunkin Large is a 20oz hot coffee or 32oz Iced Coffee, and yes you can ask for "no ice" which is common enough they finally had to make it an upcharge. They ALSO sell an XL in my area, which is a 24oz hot. A 10oz here is called a "Small" and they don't sell many of those. Usually just to people like my 80 year old mother-in-law.

A more useful comparison would be that one lemonade is like having two or three dark roast coffees.

...except that Panera's standard size for hot coffee is a 16oz, and the large is 20oz. And we the complaint keeps saying "dark roast" because their light roast coffee matches these lemonades for total caffeine content (384 for a large vs 390 for a 30oz lemonade).

Nothing about this drink is anywhere out of proportion of a typical coffee drink in the US.

[–] doricub 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Do they have that information on the drive through or the app though?

[–] jordanlund 2 points 1 year ago

That's a super good question, it's not clear, but it's also not clear if that's how she bought the drink.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Edit: Yes, it's visible. No, I don't think it's a good idea. Fuck corporate Panera, sue away. If it hurts our wages we'll just protest corporate.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Why isn't it a good idea to sell something with typical iced coffee caffeine content to people who want that much caffeine?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How visible is that sign from the order counter? Also, visually handicapped customers would have no idea.

[–] HeyJoe 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's self serve, unless it was a drive through pickup order.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

To be fair, the average person is probably not going to really know how much caffeine is a lot of caffeine if you just give them the number, and the fact that people usually drink higher volumes of lemonade than dark coffee might lead to confusion as well. Plus, people don't generally expect caffeine in lemonade, so it's easy to imagine someone just going for the big flavor label and just figuring the smaller stuff is just nutrition labels and ignoring it.

I'm not really sure the best way to label this, it doesn't seem like a great product idea at all tbh, but given the combination of potentially dangerous amounts of caffeine and it being a product one wouldn't normally expect to contain any, I'd think that the labelling should be set up in a way as to be impossible to make assumptions about or ignore. Like, make it as big as the flavor label, in a box of a different color usually used for warnings like red or bright orange or something, and mention that the quantity of caffeine involved can be dangerous to those sensitive in addition to just the number.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, the label already says "has as much caffeine as coffee". Short of only selling caffeine at a dispensary with giant warnings, I'm not sure there's any action that could or should be taken.

[–] jordanlund -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the trick is, yeah, on an ounce by ounce basis, as much caffeine as coffee, but people also aren't drinking coffee 30 ounces at a time.

Point of comparison here, a caffeine pill like NoDoze is 200mg and the suggested dose is 1 every 3-4 hours.

The 30 ounces here is about the same as 2 caffeine pills.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

on an ounce by ounce basis, as much caffeine as coffee

Much less caffeine than the typical coffee most of us drink.

but people also aren’t drinking coffee 30 ounces at a time

This lemonade has less caffeine than a Dunkin Large Iced Coffee, one of the most popular drinks in my area. Yeah, they are drinking coffee 20 oz at a time, which is all it takes to hit the same caffeine as 30oz of this lemonade.

Point of comparison here, a caffeine pill like NoDoze is 200mg and the suggested dose is 1 every 3-4 hours.

Counterpoint of comparison, the USDA rates 400mg as the healthy limit for daily intake. I could have a large charged lemonade every day and be comfortably under the "low-risk" line. And as I said elsewhere,

The 30 ounces here is about the same as 2 caffeine pills.

And a joint around here has the same active ingredient as about 20 THC pills. Just because something is in pill form doesn't mean it's a high dosage.

...also, I'd like to note that NoDoze suggests a dosage that hits over 800mg of caffeine a day, about three of these drinks. Also, the same dosage as a pot of coffee that MANY Americans drink every. single. morning.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

As a caffeine fiend and energy drink afficianado, holy fucking shit that an obnoxious amount of caffeine in a fountain drink imo

I'm with you, this needs to be sold individually in cans not free pourable.

[–] Jaigoda 7 points 1 year ago

If you have a heart condition or generally just a high sensitivity to caffeine, it's pretty important to know how much is a lot. The vast majority of people do not have any serious issues consuming 300mg or so of caffeine, so putting a bunch of big scary labels on this stuff just seems like overkill. For example, if you have a peanut allergy, it's generally on you to check the allergen list in the fine print, or if you have Celiac disease, you need to either buy stuff specifically labeled gluten-free or confirm with a restaurant, manufacturer, etc.

The fact that all of their signs have not just one, but three separate indicators ("charged", as much caffeine as coffee, and the specific caffeine amount) for anyone who might have a sensitivity is enough to show Panera's due diligence in my opinion.

I do get your point that people wouldn't automatically assume there's caffeine in Panera's random juice drinks, but caffeine is absolutely everywhere right now. I'd personally love for caffeine to be required to be listed in the nutrition label of drinks (or food that contains it) so you would know how much is in a Mountain Dew or Coke. But until that happens, I don't see how Panera could be seen as liable in this situation.

[–] Hackerman_uwu 4 points 1 year ago

America is a place of personal feeedom but not personal accountability it seems.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Needs to be bigger and brighter imo. It looks like standard nutrition info which I omits never look at.