this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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The UN and EU consider lots of things Israel does illegal. We just don't do anything about it and they don't care.
The problem I have with the "both sides" argument is while I agree we should not approve of Hamas' actions, Israel routinely murders civilians without consequence. We tut and tsk but we still send them basically unlimited aid and approval.
Yes both sides behave badly but one side does so with our explicit support.
Don't forget how Israel sells world-class spyware to despots and dictators, who use it to terrorise journalists and political opponents.
IDF soldiers have murdered plenty of children. It is routine and I don't care if they are protesting, they are entitled to protest oppression.
Hamas are disgusting and Israel are cunts but Hamas is because of what Israel does.
Well if you casually leave out that part it becomes a lie by omission. And there's a reason you have to use this lie both to yourself and to others. It has a whole different ring to it when you say "IDF regularly shoot teenagers throwing molotov cocktails in protest" instead of "routinely murdering children".
Siblings Ali and Mayar ed-Din, who were killed in an IDF airstrike on May 9, 2023
Damn teenagers get younger with every cull.
Do you believe the pilot was targeting these two kids?
I believe in the indifference to the plight of the people by those giving the orders.
Mohammed Tamimi is the youngest Palestinian killed in the conflict this year (June 2023)
Shot in the head by Israeli forces.
He was 2.
Sitting in a car caught in a gunfight where freedom fighters attacked the IDF. Do you believe they knew/saw he was in the car from that distance?
Don't hurt your back moving then goalposts.
From "They only kill dangerous teens" to "The innocent kids are accidents actually."
Where did I say "only"?
Maybe you can get a forklift for your goalpost
It was your implication. I was wrong because the deaths were actually teenagers, if your implication wasn't accurate then why say it?
I haven't moved goalposts or set parameters in the first place to move them.
Solid reply though "No u". About as much as I can hope for from someone like you I guess.
It was my 'implication'?
This is a message board format - it's easy to go back and see what I wrote
This is exactly what you said, poorly worded as it was.
The implication is that my assertion is wrong because the reality is those being killed are actually dangerous teenagers throwing bombs.
So I reply back with a two year old (notable for not being a teenager) who was shot in the head as the IDF botched an ambush in a civilian area without any care for those around them.
I also gave you two more who happened to not be teenagers throwing bombs who were killed in an airstrike on a civilian area.
Please shut the fuck up now we know you are a supporter of the apartheid regime but you're not intelligent enough to defend it effectively.
This is my last reply because you are an idiot. Grow some heart and recognise those children that scroller past are dead because of the IDF and Israel and no one else.
Well you tried to twist me saying "in a lot of cases" into "only". Sorry for pointing that out
You sound really hinged buddy, hang in there. Maybe refrain from commenting on such complex issues for a while
Yeah they absolutely did, by teaching the people that shit was normal by doing it to them for generations. Murdering civilians who are celebrating is just how they say hi, so they shouldn't be surprised pikachu face when they do it right back to them.
Don't forget when they're committing the crime of being born on land Israeli settlers want.
We (the EU at least) also send a lot of aid to Palestinians.
Israel should be sanctioned and decolonized like South Africa was.
And I, for one, believe that that would have happened a long time ago if the Palestinians had followed the Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Gandhi playbook.
Perhaps I am wrong. Like the rest of the world, I also don't have the solution for this quagmire.
The experiment has actually been running already. The Gaza Strip is run by Hamas, which is violent and pushes back against Israel however they can. The West Bank is run by Fatah, which has been attempting to keep good relations with Israel and work with them.
Despite that, the West Bank has seen a continuing encroachment of illegal Israeli settlers, continuing violence directed at Palestinians, both by the settlers moving in there and by the Israeli army. The reason the border with Gaza was so ill-defended was because Netanyahu had moved much of the force usually stationed there into the West Bank. Palestinian deaths in the West Bank has been rising.
I don't think the Mahatma Ghandi approach is likely to work in the Middle East. At least no better than any other approach people have been trying has been working there.
Development aid, not weapons as the west supplies to Israel. But otherwise you're right. The whole region should be disarmed.
The only way to disarm "the whole region" would be to basically level all of it and make it totally uninhabitable.
That thought also crossed my mind.
Has anyone ever heard of BDS?!?
I’m not saying it’s the right move
But it would solve a whole lot of issues.
The US sends aid to palestine as well, just nowhere near as much as we do to israel.
And there isn't a good solution. No matter what, everybody will be mad. Mad and not violent would be nice, though.
Thing also is that those people were also hated during thier time and also called terrorists. There’s no good options for a leader sadly.
A lot of people seem the think he was only regarded well once released from prison. I certainly didn't know much about him until then.
Yet Only Fools and Horses was made in 1981, and they lived in Nelson Mandela House. So even in the UK we knew South Africa was on the wrong side of history. And we should know, we wrote most of it...
So were the IRA...
And yet now here we are with Sinn Fein holding elected positions.
At some point there has to be dialogue otherwise you just keep killing one another.
As opposed to the IDF that’s been terrorizing Palestinians constantly?
It’s terrorists in both sides. Unfortunately civilians are the ones caught in the crossfire.
As opposed to the resistants (including many Jews) during WW2 who were literally called terrorists by Nazis ?
They dont need a Palestinian Mandela to stop military and civil aid and cooperation when Israel commits war crimes.
The West called Mandela a terrorist until he won and they killed MLK
So
And Gandhi was a black-hating Mussolini sympathiser.
This is the sort of thing that reminds me never to trust the accepted wisdom of internet groups.
Gandhi after being educated in England was only a little less racist then everyone else when he first went to South Africa and made the famous comment you're referring to... He then had his awakening against oppression and began to fight for an end to racism, one of the main popular scandals against Gandhi in South Africa was that the medical corp he set up would give aid to whoever needed it first regardless of rank, colour or ethnicity. The rest of his life he wrote and fought for the rights of all.
But of course 'popular person was actually bad' is a fun hot take so of course it's going to be banded around without any nuance.
The UN condemns Israel as a pastime activity. Nobody in Israel cares what they say at this point.
Because they are the West’s military outpost in the Middle East A
I guess sanctions only make sense when Israel is out of the picture.