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For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
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This is key:
"This does not mean most Israeli Jews became ideological right-wingers; they are not, polling suggests, fully committed to the project of expanding settlements or West Bank annexation. Mostly, they wanted Netanyahu and the right to keep them safe in a way that the left seemingly couldn’t. The prime minister, in recognition of this reality, campaigned first and foremost on security — earning the moniker, perhaps self-claimed, of “Mr. Security.”
Hamas’s attack on Saturday, a mass slaughter of Israeli civilians without precedent in Israeli history, exposed a basic contradiction in this image in the most agonizing way. Simply put, there is no way now to argue that the right-wing ideological project has delivered the security most Israelis crave."
I hope there are enough moderate Israelis out there who can push for a different approach because oppression, theft of land, and brutality isn't a way forward if the aim is to stop bloodshed from both sides.
There are plenty of moderate people in the US, but we waged a war for twenty fucking years after 9/11.
All of human history up until this day points towards a great ramping of war efforts to slaughter everyone they can get their hands on
The actual amount of Afghanis and Iraqis killed by coalition troops and mercenaries is pretty low. The vast, vast majority of casualties of the "War on Terror" came from disruption of services and the "Civil War" stage of the Iraq invasion which saw a hundred factions fighting each other as the US+allies mostly sat around in the Green Zone. Largely because death wasn't the point, control and power was, and as long as the oil flowed the US's goals were achieved.
I'm not saying that death toll isn't ultimately the US's fault, but I am saying your point simply isn't true, the horrors of the past operated on a scale modern humans very rarely understand at any real level, and mass death simply isn't the goal that often.
Like, the Japanese invasion of China in WW2 killed twenty million people alone, and most Americans are barely aware it was a front of the war.
Even if you believe the absolute worst of the claims of the modern Uyghur genocide, also not ethnic cleansing, it's an attempt to eradicate the culture and faith that makes them troublesome to control for the CCP. Death, yet again, is not the point, control is.
Honestly this attack from Hamas is notable precisely because killing civilians seems largely to be the point, whatever justification they feel they have.
"The actual amount of Afghanis and Iraqis killed by coalition troops and mercenaries is pretty low. "
Over a million people is not pretty low. Go smoke some more crack.
Those million deaths are mostly the casualties from the civil war stage of the Iraq occupation, and were not the direct result of coalition violence.
Most, as mentioned, were casualties from sectarian violence and loss of service. Insurgent on insurgent action. Not even really Iraqis vs Iraqis tbh, given the large number of foreign volunteer fighters.
America's fault for both destabilizing the region and not enforcing order in the mess they created, but not the result of coalition troops gunning people down in the streets.
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021)
Those million deaths are mostly the casualties from the civil war stage of the Iraq occupation, and were not the direct result of coalition violence.
Most, as mentioned, were casualties from sectarian violence and loss of service. Insurgent on insurgent action. Not even really Iraqis vs Iraqis tbh, given the large number of foreign volunteer fighters.
America's fault for both destabilizing the region and not enforcing order in the mess they created, but not the result of coalition troops gunning people down in the streets.
The coalition claimed to have only killed 1300 civilians. Do you really believe that?
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2019/05/us-coalition-admission-of-1300-civilian-deaths-in-iraq-and-syria/
Sure, if you don't count all the mercenaries they hired as coalition troops. Mercenaries you can watch, on YouTube, firing .50 cals into traffic as "warning shots."
And you ignore that "military age male" doesn't mention being visibly armed, particularly suspicious, and is defined as simply being over a male over 16.
But even if that number was a hundred times higher in reality it would still be about 10% of the total estimated casualties.
The point, as mentioned, was not to kill people, as the original comment implied.
It was to conquer and control an oil rich nation.
The Iraq war was plainly illegitimate, based on a tissue of lies. 9/11 was not a legitimate casus belli for invading Iraq, and the WMD thing was simply a hoax.
I am not so convinced about the Afghan war. 9/11 was a mass murder perpetrated by Al-Qaeda on American soil, and the Taliban were hosting and working with Al-Qaeda. However, the "nation building" efforts were never going to work.
After 9/11, the Taliban wanted to negotiate with the US in order to extradite Osama Bin Laden. Their demands were simple:
Bush said 'we dont negotiate with terrists lol' and ramped up the bombing of Afghanistan, leading to the brutal invasion. Later we executed Bin Laden without a trial.
I'm not sure how you could consider any of that legitimate.
Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over - The Guardian
Fair enough. Bush is a war criminal, and no mistake. Still and all, Bin Laden did take responsibility for the attacks.
I've seen this claim about "beheadings of babies" being circulated in the last day in regard to the Hamas/Israel situation. Biden "confirmed" it but then representatives walked back claims that he had even claimed to see proof. So again it's one of these situations where thousands of lives are being sacrificed behind "proof" that the public cannot see. It may have happened, it may not have, but how on earth are we supposed to know without proof?
The mentality people have that we should just take it on faith is absolutely baffling to me. We have stringent standards for proof in the criminal trial of a single person, but when it comes to waging wars against countries of millions of people, the standards drop down to zero. There is so much danger in just entrusting people in power to dictate to the public what happened and what didn't and not have any way to verify it. The stakes are beyond reasoning so the standard for proof to justify any actions should be absolute.
The Saudi Royal family was behind it, and we never attacked them because of the petrodollar.
I've heard this notion before, but I'm unconvinced. My impression is that Osama bin Laden was a Saudi dissident, not a representative of the Saudi elite.
Aren't there something like 15,000 members of the Saudi Royal family?
Here's a couple of articles with details about the connections:
https://theintercept.com/2021/09/11/september-11-saudi-arabia/
https://www.propublica.org/article/long-secret-fbi-report-reveals-new-connections-between-9-11-hijackers-and-saudi-religious-officials-in-u-s
Respectfully, anyone pushing for an ethnostate is a nationalistic right wing person by definition.
Respectfully, everyone is living in a world where the Overton Window has already moved to the right substantially. Roe v Wade being overturned, Trump holding sway over Republican voters despite being a clearly contentious demagogue, England and Brexit, England leaving a succession of ever-worsening Tories in power. Etc etc.
I'm not playing whataboutism, I'm illustrating a point.
Obama killed Bin Laden.
Bush let the largest terrorist attack ever on US soil happen.
Yet people were calling for Republicans to keep us safe....
Conservatives all over the world seem to be dumb as bricks, including Israel.
Politicians are lining their pockets with lobbyist cash and Northrop Grumman is going to have a great quarter.
racism leads to underestimating opponents.
Unfortunately, human nature is to go the other direction. This event will lead to more extreme view points. Those that professed compassion and understanding are likely to join the hate train if a loved one was brutally killed or maimed.
Unfortunately, the aim is to:
Stopping bloodshed is not part of either side, some of the sides are actually asking for more bloodshed 🤦
This is a little confused... The British promised a state to both. The land the Jews lived on was purchased from absentee landlords who didn't care who was living on it, first from the Ottoman Empire and later from Britain. The partition plan was proposed to make good on Britain's dual promises - it won a vote in the UN despite the entire Arab League voting against it. Jews celebrated, Arabs protested, there was a civil war that turned into the Israeli war for independence, and the British decided they weren't going to enforce the partition plan and fucked off to drink tea and reminisce about the good old days of starving Indians to death and getting the Chinese addicted to opium.
It does seem hopeless but I grew up during "the troubles" in Ireland, there was a long time where it seemed peace was an impossibility.
Yup. This conflict is a freaking mess all around.
Unfortunately anyone with a moderate voice is usually shouted down and ostracised with references to Israelis who have been killed. This has been a running theme with Israel (not the people, the country), in line with calling everyone who criticises them anti-semites, but it seems to have particularly stepped up recently.
I saw a news reporter asking a hard question to someone about Israel's attacks, an Israeli politician next to him jumped in and talked the reporter down (without answering the question). You could see the anger building in him, if he wasn't in front of a dozen cameras he would have been full blown raging. It's incredibly difficult to talk reason when people act like that, and without anyone saying it reason can easily die.