this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2023
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The use of depleted uranium munitions has been fiercely debated, with opponents like the International Coalition to Ban Uranium Weapons saying there are dangerous health risks from ingesting or inhaling depleted uranium dust, including cancers and birth defects.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It's not about them. It's the children who find the spent ammo later.

This crap is the reason that there are birth defects spikes anywhere the US military operates.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ok but the alternatives are not environmentally conscious either, finally the people who’s land it is should be the ones making choices about the conditions of that land

[–] CookieOfFortune 7 points 1 year ago

The alternative bring tungsten? It's very stable so anything besides eating a spent rod isn't going to have effects. If it's in the air it'll just be inert. Even if it gets in your lungs it'll be like any other dust. DU on the other hand would keep emitting radiation internally.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

But which people? Government or the people who actually own the land?

And I guess, their favourite choice of "Don't use any weapons on my land and just clear off voluntairily" is not an option.

I don't get why people hate on the Ukraine for using weapons to defend themselves. Not like they chose to be attacked.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Is ammo made from lead that much better? I honestly don't know. Sure the radiation sucks but Uranium, at least the isotope they're sending is "barely" radioactive. It's the same Uranium people had in their plates etc. The toxicity is probably the far more relevant factor but I don't know how Uranium compares to lead.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

Depleted uranium is not really that radioactive. Everything is technically radioactive eventually though. Depleted uranium is what's left behind when you seperate the radioactive stuff out. It's a heavy metal still, so isn't good for you, but heavy metals will always be involved. Trying to have a war using only healthy, organic, ethically sourced munitions isn't going to happen.

[–] AnUnusualRelic 5 points 1 year ago

It's nothing to do with radioactivity, it's the toxicity that comes with most heavy metals.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

There isn't radiation in Depleted uranium.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This makes sense.

I imagine there's a lot more reasons for birth defect spikes post US mil ops in addition to this. The military isn't exactly an environmentally conscious operation. ☠️

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Agent orange is what plants crave

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Sure, burn pits and other crap will help.

But this kind of ammo, kids will find and hang on to. They bring it home, add it to their collection of other cool shit they've scavenged...and then their brothers and sisters are born with malformed limbs, mishaped heads, etc.

There have been a lot of stories written about it over the years. The one I read was specifically about Iraq I believe, but it was a while ago.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

To be fair, the impact of DU is mostly because of heavy metal poisoning, not radioactivity.

[–] JJROKCZ 6 points 1 year ago

You’re acting like being near this stuff is akin to standing in Chernobyl while it just isn’t true

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The amount of Ukrainians dying right now will pale in comparison to those effected by the munitions.

The controversy around depleted uranium rounds is way overblown.

Even in Iraq the evidence is super inconclusive. And yes birth defects rose however the entire country basically collapsed for years and nothing clearly indicates it was the DU used.

Don't get me wrong, it's nasty stuff. But this is war, more people are getting killed by bombs then any DU related cancer can cause.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In Basra the rate of leukemia in children rose dramatically and that is too specific of a disease to not be linked to DU exposure due to the heavy use of it in surrounding tank battles.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How do you you it's not linked to any of the other hundreds of dangerous chemicals?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Because the issue is specific to the region and started specifically after the tank battle where DU ammunition was used. If it would be a general issue with some dangerous chemical being used, we'd expect to see similiar issues in other regions. Of course it is hypotheticakky possible that at the same time some dangerous and persistant chemical exposure happened in the region, but that is not plausible and also the US would have a strong interest in finding such an alternative explanation. But there isn't any research published, that provided an alternative.

Also look into the wording of the US when sending the ammunition to Ukraine. They state that no radiation hazard is to be expected for the Ukrainians. They do not talk about a toxicological hazard.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
  1. correlation ≠ causation. 2) if the disease is caused by DU, is it due to the radioactivity or the fact that DU is a heavy metal?
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

i never said it had to be because of radiation. Even just in its effect as a heavy metal it seems to be much worse. Also it could be that it becomes airborn more easily than other metals such as lead, so the wreckage of tanks shot with DU are more dangerous to the people cleaning them up.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why are you so worried about speculated harms when Ukrainians are actually being raped, tortured, and murdered by russians? Your lack of humanity is showing

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Turning "we need to weigh benefits and costs" into "your lack of humanity is showing" is quite a take and obviously has nothing to do with reality.

[–] severien 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

How about letting Ukrainians make that cost/benefit analysis for their own country? I think they're grown-ups, no need to patronize.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

it's not the Ukrainian people who decide, it's the Ukrainian government that decides, and America basically decides what they decide

[–] severien -2 points 1 year ago

Ukrainian government has a very high approval rate among the population.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

Are you really this delusional? Sure Ukraine has their own uranium munitions that they can decide to use anytime they want... When does the public get to decide on what happens with the tax money - fund schools, build infrastructure, etc. or send radioactive ammunition to fuel a proxy war in some corrupt country?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Weighing costs and benefits happens with a comprehensive set of actual facts, not a hodgepodge of speculations and fearmongering that play into the fascists' hands