514
Diplomacy dies on live TV as Trump and Vance gang up to bully Ukraine leader
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 01 Mar 2025
514 points (99.2% liked)
politics
20539 readers
5066 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Yours is the only credible explanation I've seen so far
Here's something I thought of while watching: Who's backing up Zelenskiy and giving him the courage to walk away like he did?
Somewhat related: Years ago I read a blog post about "who's really in charge". Basically it's the MIC. At what point does the MIC flex and assert its interests in continuing the conflict in Ukraine?
Trump's hands were quickly tied in 2017, just as Obama found himself in 2009, by the bureaucracy, congressional gridlock, and the demands of the donor class. It's the overarching theme of a Chapo miniseries, Hell of Presidents: US executives have little ability to make sweeping changes even when they have a mandate.
So now he's there and trying to beat them all by firing everyone. Trump's only personal goals seem to be ending Ukraine conflict and pretending to be tough on immigration. He hires loyalist sycophants and lets them pursue their own agendas (Christianists, Nazis, RFK medical quackery, etc) because they agree to stay out of his way on his pet issues.
The lawless takeover by Musk has kept me awake at night. These people are just doing whatever they want and daring anybody to stop them.
What I saw in this bizarre piece of diplomacy theatre was a huge crack in the facade. Nobody conducts serious diplomacy this way. This is desperation by Trump to gain some leverage through public opinion and put Zelenskiy on the spot. Trump's desired course of action with Ukraine threatens the legitimacy and mission of the postwar empire (regardless of what you or I think about US imperialism and NATO) and a lot of folks are deeply invested in that arrangement
This is all just ideas floating around in my head that seem somehow related. I'm sure someone else can make sense of it, or tell me why I'm way off base
Sorry for my ignorance, what’s/who’s the MIC?
Military Industrial Complex
Ahh gotcha
According to details leaking to the press, Zelenskyy didn’t walk but was thrown out.