this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2024
1118 points (96.4% liked)
Political Memes
5598 readers
1800 users here now
Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Are people actually arguing that NATO membership is the reason for Russian attacks on neighboring nations?
Putin literally said he wants to restore the old Russian Empire. What the fuck was thay suppose to mean, then? A joke?
Jfc the number of people who don't believe the terrible things Dictators say they are going to do is too damn high.
Tankies need to toe the party line.
NATO membership was pootins public reason for war
One of the listed reasons, yes. Other reasons:
Protecting russia-speaking people of Donbass (almost identical reason Hitler gave for invading Austria and Sudetenlands in 1938)
Historical and cultural justifications, Putin claimed Ukraine is not a legitimate state (also an argument used by Hitler in 1938)
To stop "aggression of Ukraine in Luhansk and Donetsk" (Hitler accused Poland of the same in 1939)
Reclaiming rightful territory (Hitler referenced the Treaty of Versailles as reason for his wars)
Claiming that diplomacy failed and that Putin has no choice but to invade (also said by Hitler)
It's almost as if Putin is Hitler reincarnated.
I thought it was Gay Nazis or something.
I've honestly not even heard Putin mention NATO on Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War#Relations_between_Georgia_and_the_West
There is a direct cause-effect relationship for Russias invasion of Georgia and it seems that at the time France and Germany were aware of this, while Bush pushed for an escalation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War#Geopolitical_impact
This isn't just "Putin said". There seems to be a quite clear understanding of that being the trigger point for Russia among foreign policy politicians and experts in Europe.
You realise that Russia invading people for even considering the chance to a mutual defence pact isn't Western escelation, right? If anything it is proof that Russia has been planning to invade them since long before all of this.
Russia isn't at any risk of NATO countries attacking them because NATO countries have no obligation to protect an aggressor member-state. They became hostile because they were losing their chance to warmonger.
That is your thesis. As can be seen with Russia invasion of Georgia and as it is understood by European politicians and experts, this thesis seems rather weak. This has nothing to do with whether Russias view is justified or not.
But again i'd like to invite the thought experiment. Imagine Mexico or Canada to join a military defense pact with Russia. How do you think the US would react? Which reaction would be justified in your eyes?
If you say that it is different because of how Russia has been using military violence to further its interests, which is a good point, how does that differ from the US invading and occupying Afghanistan and Iraq?
If the US is expanding its influence towards the borders of other nations with power aspirations, it is not perceived any different how we would perceive their influence towards us. Case in point Ukraine. It is not just said, that Russias illegal invasion of Ukraine is a problem because it is an illegal invasion, but it is also said that Ukraine is defending "our" western freedom. But you can't have it both ways.
Iraq and Afghanistan are not and were never colonies or US owned. After W. Bush invaded Iraq for oil he was vilified and the opposition party got to replace them for 8 years, which were spent investing in peace and diplomacy in the Middle East. Afghanistan and Iraq were allowed to reassemble autonomously as long as they did so peacefully. Obama earned a nobel peace prize. Then, the next guy in office from the same party as Bush decided to withdraw troops and release thousands of captured militants which lead to an immediate collapse of middle eastern state of Afghanistan.
Meanwhile, Putin has been in power for decades and will continue to do so until he dies. He is attempting to expand Russia, take complete authority over neighboring states.
Are you seriously arguing, that no one should feel threatened by the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, because then the leadership of the US changed, while the occupations continued for two more decades?
With that sentiment it is no wonder, that most of the world that is not aligned with the US feel threatened by them. Also you should listen to Putins claims about Ukraine. It is the exact same bullshit. "It is just a special military operation". "We have to get rid of their corrupt leaders." "They will have freedom and self determination under us, if they are peaceful."
If USA were out conquering Mexico or Canada then you could rightly call them out for their bullshit, but it is the epitomy of disingenous to compare Iraq to Ukraine.
Guess what the NATO response was to Iraq? Nothing. Guess what the NATO response was to Bay of Pigs Invasion? Nothing. NATO is not the USA and it does not protect aggressor member states. Its a mutual defense pact that has never been called upon because nobody has ever been stupid enough to attack its members.
Afghanistan was a NATO "intervention". The "Coalition of the willing" invading Iraq largely consisted of NATO members and was invoke by Bush at a NATO summit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_the_willing_(Iraq_War)
Again you need to differ between formal constitution and de facto actions and perception of them.
Saddam Hussain ruled Iraq for 24 years during which he invaded Iran to stop rebels from overthrowing the Iranian Sunni theocracy, killing a million people and almost successfully genocided the Kurdish people.
Then, 4 NATO nations invaded Iraq while 37 willingly provided non-combatant support troops. Some NATO nations did nothing and one member opposed the invasion completely.
The United Nations itself actually placed trade restrictions on Iraq without anybody vetoing or opposing it.
Saddam was tried by Iraqis in Iraq after his capture.
I'm willing to bet you simultaneously stand up for Saddam Hussain while you condemn Netanyahu, because Genocide is fine as long as its on your side, right?
And you know what could have prevented the USA's invasion? A Mutual Defence Pact.
Security Dilemma in action: One party wants to strengthen their own security, the other party considers that a threat to theirs and responds in kind.
Instead of mutually agreeing that they've both reached a point of military capacity where actual war would be more costly than lucrative, the respective leaders conveniently overlook who would be paying that cost and keep posturing, and the arms dealers keep making bank.
It meant simply alliances. NED installing nazis and calling it democracy to instigate war on Russia isn't going to be welcome.
Lmao, fuckin tankies bro, will do or say anything.
I can use the voyager app to tag them and it's the best feature of the app so far.
wait, how?
EDIT: Nevermind, found it in the settings!
Yes it is. Been tagging tankies all morning.
Same with Boost. Main reason I'm using it.
Except criticize any authoritarian government that isn’t the US.
Hegemony means influence over all evil in this world. Everyone else is protecting themselves or licking the diaper. The derangement over "Putin would like USSR's old influences" means war is not an acceptable view that needed correcting. NAFO troll brigade calling reality "tankie" is just BS.
I’m glad we have a tankie here to give us the Russian propaganda line.
Interesting that these troll accounts are almost always less than a month old. How long is your contract for?
And they only comment about the same politics nonstop. It's ridiculous.
They switched accounts after the US election.
BOOM you have been tagged
Another one
Tagged
Hmm, invading territory and forcing into alliance is totally what you do with an alliance member