I fully agree. This applies not only to feminism but in general - if you want to convince people about something, you need to plan your approach, what to say, know what works on people etc. You cannot just rage like crazy because there's a high chance you just create a counter reaction.

F.e. I'd say we can all agree that gay rights are the right thing. But if you come to some conservative village, start shouting at everyone, being super aggresive and rage like a maniac, I'd bet that the only thing you achieve is that you'll be labeled as "that crazy person"

I'm really surprised of the responses to this comment, I find this to be a common sense

[–] jettrscga 14 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

You're right if the goal is to convince someone of something. But why is it the job of the gay person to talk to the conservative village in "the right way" to justify their existence?

More generally, why is it always the oppressed who have to try to rationalize and normalize themselves for a chance at being accepted in what is also their society?

I have no room to speak since I'm not fighting any of those fights, but even I get infuriated thinking about people needing to talk rationally about why they should be accepted.

[–] EfreetSK 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

But why is it the job of the gay person to talk to the conservative village in "the right way" to justify their existence?

It isn't, but we're talking about arguing with idiots. I had some lengthy response prepared but I scraped that - bottom line is, what is your solution in such scenario then? (I mean the village scenario)

My solution is that you need to show people that they have nothing to fear, basically to bring them down to their senses. That's standard negotiation/diplomacy. It's unfair but that's life, in ideal world we wouldn't need to deal with this. And alternative for me is a tribal war of "us vs. them", where you spark in people "this person is aggresive against me, this person is thus my enemy!" and then any logic or reason goes out of window.

But really, what is your solution?

[–] jettrscga 1 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah I'm in the same boat with lengthy scrapped response. We're at a point that's demonstrated there is no solution to arguing with idiots, short of buying media outlets and correcting the narrative globally. People aren't willing to be persuaded by discussion, even with their own families. It's a signal-to-noise issue where the noise is all of the media propaganda that overpowers the signal of real world around them.

Being a gay ambassador isn't going to change any minds when the recipient gets bombarded by hate speech 24/7 on their favorite news outlets. So I think people should just be themselves and society has a responsibility to fix itself.

I know it's not a good answer, I don't think anyone has one or there wouldn't be a global rise in fascism. But it comes off as victim-blaming to put the responsibility on the oppressed, rather than the rest of society to fix it.

[–] captainlezbian 2 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah I’m just fucking exhausted as a trans woman in a red state. I’ve been out for a fucking decade and I just want to not have to justify my existence or play nice with people who want me to not be as able to participate equally in society as them.

And that’s the thing I’m seeing with the misogyny of today. Yes, there are some struggles men are facing, but nobody is proposing the removal of the rights of cis men to control their body. Cis men aren’t being threatened with forced marriage. Patriarchy hurts everyone but not equally.

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