this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2024
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[–] [email protected] 69 points 3 months ago (5 children)

The russian army is entirely bound in its invasion into Ukraine. If it weren't for the threat of nuclear annihilation, NATO would get to Moscow within 3 days. A true 3-day military operation.

[–] PugJesus 34 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No, no, don't worry, they still have their secondary army of sad conscripts (poor people only, don't worry) who are ritually tortured for a year as a rite of adulthood.

[–] Chainweasel 32 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm pretty sure that's the army they're using at the moment, I remember seeing news stories of elderly Farmers being conscripted over a year ago

[–] PugJesus 16 points 3 months ago

There's a second, even-sadder army behind that one. In the Donbass, (previously? Not sure how it is now) legally distinct from Russia itself, they were just mass-conscripting people for the meat grinder. The actual Russian citizens in Ukraine, though, are overwhelmingly volunteers (and overwhelmingly impoverished ethnic minorities) who were bribed or tortured during their rite of adulthood until they said "Dying in Ukraine is better than this" and 'voluntarily' signed a service contract.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] Maalus 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Implying western countries never invaded Moscow or something? Poland held it for a year, russians made it a national holiday when they finally got it back.

[–] Poem_for_your_sprog 8 points 3 months ago

Too bad Poland didn't stay

[–] twistypencil -1 points 3 months ago

Then what? Let us not fall into the Iraq trap

[–] mkwt -5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)
  1. Even with nuclear annihilation, NATO could still get to Moscow in a three day operation. It's just a question of which cities back home are still standing.

  2. Moscow is not the big prize you might think it is. Russia can just retreat hundreds of kilometers further east and carry on.

  3. NATO can do the thunder run, but they are not equipped to win a massive land war in Asia. You really gotta listen to the Sicilian from Princess Bride on this one.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Russia can just retreat hundreds of kilometers further east and carry on.

Into what, a wasteland full of snow and bears? Russia might be massive, but it works like Canada. Everybody is huddled into very specific regions for a reason.

[–] Blue_Morpho -4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Occupying Moscow is like occupying DC. The politicians will fly to safety and you are left occupying a city of low level administrative personnel and restaurants. Nothing of military value is manufactured in Moscow just like DC.

[–] Maalus 8 points 3 months ago

Except there isn't a California 1000 miles away, there is only Bumfuck Alabama.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Nothing of military value is manufactured in Moscow just like DC.

Most of their industry is there, because it’s where most of people live.

[–] mkwt -4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

I'm just repeating what happened or what the plan was the last couple of go arounds, with Napoleon and Hitler.

Napoleon did occupy Moscow, but it didn't help him very much.

Hitler was turned back just short of Moscow, but the Russian government had all sorts of continuity plans that involved moving further east. Entire factories were uprooted and shipped into the Urals.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Entire factories were uprooted and shipped into the Urals.

Try doing that now

[–] PugJesus 4 points 3 months ago

Napoleon did occupy Moscow, but it didn’t help him very much.

Because he was trying to wait for the Tsar's peace negotiations. Not because taking Moscow wasn't a major victory. The issue is that Napoleon had no intention of pursuing the war any further, but the Tsar was not willing to give up at the point they were at, because the Tsar realized that Napoleon wanted a quick surrender, not a chase across the Asian steppes.

[–] Maalus 4 points 3 months ago

Soviets would've gotten their ass handed to them without lend lease.

[–] bassomitron 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If nukes started popping off, there'd be zero reason to send in ground forces until it was all over. Lastly, I'm not convinced Russia's nuclear program is much better off than NATO's. So many interviews with nuke watch officers talking about how old and decrepit our silos are. The DoD supposedly approved a modernization package a few years ago for all of them, but I'm still skeptical how efficient the targeting is on everything and how well they'll avoid missile defense systems.

[–] mkwt 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

None of the current ICBM platforms were designed for missile defense. Missile defense simply did not exist at the time.

Sentinel is busting its budget because it's renovating and rebuilding all of the ground segments: all of those decrepit silos and computer systems. It's still money well spent in my opinion.

Missile guidance is not a computationally hard problem, and it hasn't changed much since the 50s. Terminal missile defense is a fantastically hard problem, and wasn't mastered until the last decade or two. And the current generation missile defense capabilities still haven't all been demonstrated in combat.

Having said that, I would generally expect NATO's missiles to work as advertised in a hot war. And I would plan for Russia's missiles to be somewhat less effective than they advertise, but still a credible threat.

[–] bassomitron 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

All valid and fair points.

Regardless, I truly hope we never have to find out either way. The human species is capable of incredible things if we just set aside historical, cultural, and petty differences and worked towards a common goal of lifting everyone up. Wars of aggression are barbaric and unnecessary and I hope one day we all mentally evolve past such tendencies for mass violence. It's a naive pipe dream, but one can always dream.

[–] Poem_for_your_sprog 4 points 3 months ago

It's difficult to counter a MIRV regardless of how old it is.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Moscow is not the big prize you might think it is

Nobody has ever considered Russia a prize, or at least nobody that wasn't a complete idiot.

It's a festering shithole full of Russians, a nuke would improve it dramatically.

Nobody wants to win a war in Russia, but nobody has to.

Knock out Moscow, the rest of Russia hates them and will fracture instantly.

[–] feedum_sneedson 2 points 3 months ago

Many beautiful women that never smile.