this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2024
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"The SCOPE Act takes effect this Sunday, Sept. 1, and will require everyone to verify their age for social media."

So how does this work with Lemmy? Is anyone in Texas just banned, is there some sort of third party ID service lined up...for every instance, lol.

But seriously, how does Lemmy (or the fediverse as a whole) comply? Is there some way it just doesn't need to?

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I mean my question was addressing the scope of the jurisdiction Texas can have over a server in another state. It feels like the onus is on them (or the ISPs in Texas) to block that server

[–] FarFarAway 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Maybe someone is better equip to answer this question. As far as I understand, it is up to the social media company, as it is operating in the state. Sort of the way the corporate office of a national grocery store can be sued.

https://www.texaspolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/2023-05-BillAnalysis-HB18-Updated.pdf

First, it prohibits digital service providers from entering into an agreement with a known minor unless they have verifiable parental consent.

It seems its up to whomever is registering the account. If the person is under 18 they see a scrubbed version, of the person is over 18 they have full access. I'm not sure an ISP has control like that. I could be wrong.

I know with pornhub, the ISP didn't block the site, pornhub itself did.

[–] MotoAsh 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

"Operating in the state" and "accessible in the state" are different.

Much like a business doesn't have to have a specific state's business license to sell to customers of a different state, a website does not have to comply with all laws everywhere just because the laws exist. If they're operating in Texas, they will. If they're accessible from Texas, that's Texas' problem.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Pretty sure it doesn't work that way. Look at what happened to Binance; not a US website, not technically allowing US customers, still successfully prosecuted by the US government for not doing enough to prevent people in the US from using it.

[–] MotoAsh 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

That's because they were facilitating actual, across-the-board federal crimes.

Not looking at titties.

I could see states that have such draconian laws working together to attempt to do anything about flagrant violators, but otherwise Texas has yet another pointless, toothless virtue signaling "law" on their hands.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

The difference between what the laws are trying to enforce is a different issue though. The point is a website can be prosecuted just for being accessible when what it offers is against local laws.

[–] MotoAsh 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

No, it cannot. Not a state-based law that the feds don't care about and other states will tell them to fuck off over.

Not unless they are operating in Texas, accessible to Texas cops, with property seizeable by Texas authorities.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

So your claim is that states specifically don't have this authority, only the federal government? What's your reason for thinking this?

edit: Here's an example showing that they do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota_v._Wayfair%2C_Inc.

There's also laws like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Consumer_Privacy_Act

The businesses that the CCPA refers to do not need to be physically present in California. As long as the business is active in the state and meets the requirements, they are considered to be under the CCPA

A number of state based internet regulation laws have recently run into trouble in courts, but that's because of First Amendment concerns, not questions over whether merely being accessible to state residents gives jurisdiction to enforce them, which afaik it does.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

In the case of a grocery store, they'd have an actual physical presence in the state along with revenue and employees, so I (a total laymen) don't see how that's comparable to a website like Lemmy. Even PornHub would be different IMO since they have paid content and the transaction would be happening in Texas. A site like Lemmy earns nothing from its users and doesn't sell anything so it seems like it'd be quite the stretch to hold them accountable for the actions of some kid on the other side of the country (or planet) since Texas jurisdiction ends at the border of Texas.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

the ISP didn’t block the site,

And from the article you posted at the beginning, perhaps the ISP can't be required to do that. At least it's not list as an explicit remedy. Others are suggesting that Texas might block the site from being accessible from within Texas, but there's nothing in the law itself that suggests Texas would legally do this.

Basically it reads like that they're restricted to whatever the existing office of the AG of Texas could have already done in terms of enforcement powers, which is largely fines.

It seems its up to whomever is registering the account. If the person is under 18 they see a scrubbed version, of the person is over 18 they have full access.

Or, like, not allow registration for under 18s at all, I suppose.

I’m not sure an ISP has control like that. I could be wrong.

No, you are right. The site itself must comply.

[–] FarFarAway 1 points 2 months ago

Or, like, not allow registration for under 18s at all, I suppose.

Problem is, one would still have to find a way to verify the registrant is over 18.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Aha,

Exemptions Small businesses as defined by the Small Business Administration (SBA);

Not sure how'd this work overseas, but basically lemmy.world and friends just needs to apply to SBA to get recognized as a small business, and they're all good. (Or perhaps they could try to apply thru a US Embassy; or apply at a local authority and argue for legal equivalence between the SBA's recognition and their own country's).

As for enforcement, well,

If someone were to violate the act, the AG’s office may seek ... civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation, and attorneys’ fees

So yeah basically it comes down to trying to grab money. So as they say about sucking blood from a turnip...