this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2024
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Solarpunk Urbanism

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A community to discuss solarpunk and other new and alternative urbanisms that seek to break away from our currently ecologically destructive urbanisms.

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[–] Thespiralsong 17 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Does anyone have the actual research on this? Both of those numbers seem really low.

[–] Olgratin_Magmatoe 18 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

https://www.npscoalition.org/post/fact-sheet-cost-of-homelessness

The savings/costs drastically change based on state/city. But the overwhelming majority of the time it is cheaper to do the morally correct thing of providing permanent housing assistance.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

$10,000 a year to provide a single person housing? To put that in perspective. I'd assume that means a studio type apartment of some kind. Not high end, but a roof and place to live for $10,000 a year. I have a 1500sqft home in Washington state on 3 acres of land, and I pay $27,000 a year for my mortgage. So to me, $10,000 seems reasonable for a government funded studio for a year.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago (2 children)

And I know it’s probably unheard of in America now, but $840 a month in rent is not that wildly low. I assume there’s more to it than just that though.

[–] ladicius 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I live in the middle of Hamburg, second biggest city of Germany, in a recently renovated apartment of roughly 40 sqm and pay round about 700 EUR (~ 770 USD) for that with all facilities including electric power, home insurance and internet. The housing market in this city is considered to be tough for this country.

If you "dare" to live in a "small" flat the price really should manageable. Social assistance is another cost factor but that's an investment in your country and its people.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

That sounds so nice! I’m from America, am 32, make $35,000 a year and still live in my parents basement. I know I can “afford” an apartment, but I really don’t want to see ~50% of my pay go to rent. If you don’t mind me asking, how much do you make a month in Hamburg?

By the way, I’ve been to Germany a few times! Only ever around Frankfurt but it’s such a lovely country. ☺️

[–] ladicius 2 points 3 months ago

Full time equivalent of about 2.500 EUR net per month (it's more pre taxes, of course; I don't mind paying taxes as that affords me living in a safe and functional country). As I work part-time I take home less than that number but still get by easily (time is much more valuable than money if you cross a certain relatively low threshold of income and don't live a flashy lifestyle).

Thanks for the praise ;) Germany has its troubles and problems but continues to be a nice place to live.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

You're judging a country by one city?

Not to invalidate your lovely experiences, mind you. Germany has its lovely sides. But keep in mind that we have more people than California and Texas combined in an area smaller than either. There is a vastly diverse array of cultures and personalities. If you want an accurate image, you'll have to spend enough time here to observe the discourse around significant events, including the ugly sides, and judge from that.


I don't know what that person makes, nor what industry you're in, but minimum wage (12.41 EUR ~ 13.67 USD) with a full 40h job comes out to a gross income of about 31.4k USD per year. Your net income varies depending on where you are, whether you're married etc. but including public (legally mandated) health / long term care insurance, unemployment insurance and pension insurance, your net income would be about 22.5k USD per year / 1.85k USD per month. It's not exactly a way to get rich, but at least that's the bottom of the range.

Also, which Frankfurt? We have two and it's fun to see confused foreignerd 😄

[–] Maggoty 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I just need to say that 31k/22k with health as a bottom line would be a dream for so many Americans. They're running on 25k without medical, and having to fit rent in there too.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Don't forget a minimum of 20 days paid time off and unlimited sick leave (the employer pays full for the first six weeks, after that the government pays a reduced amount, but you're not suddenly unemployed or without income), as well as limited (paid) leave if you need to take care of sick children (30 days per parent per year for single children, 65 if you have multiple, single parents get double).

These are things we occasionally take for granted, but I've learned that they seem utterly fantastical to others.

I have a Bachelor's Degree, I'm working IT full time on a permanent contract with a Union, I get about 46k gross / 34k net per year and 30 days paid time off, while paying about 12k in rent. Food prices have gone nuts lately and various other private bills gobble up most of the rest, but I'm doing alright.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

It was more the fact that, while I stayed in Frankfurt (expo hall Frankfurt) for work, I got to go outside of the city and see a handful of different ‘villages’ and castles and stuff. It was really cool.

But I do understand where you’re coming from. Blows my mind that people would come to the US from another country and not come here:

[–] Etterra 4 points 3 months ago

It depends on where you are. $840 a month anywhere near Chicago is either stupidly cheap for what you're getting, or stupidly bad for what you're paying.