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Nikki Haley writes ‘finish them’ on IDF artillery shells during Israel visit
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 29 May 2024
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Yes but see, if we just sit on our hands and don't vote we won't have any responsibility for what follows! Only voting for someone who is less than ideal on this issue is a morally bad choice!
I totally understand the point most of them are trying to make and agree with the sentiment, but they're fucking morons. 100% absolute jibbering idiots.
This is an ugly binary choice here because the United States electoral system is a steaming pile of horse shit. Do what I, your friendly neighborhood lefty, am doing and swallow your pride and vote for center right Joe Biden because he's leagues better than the dementia-addled, fascist Cheeto Benito. Then take all the disgust you've built up by voting for and living with another neoliberal corporate shill presidency and work your ass off to make sure we don't have to keep voting between Dumb and Dumber every fucking election.
Do it because we'll only be gently tiptoeing to the right under a Biden presidency, so it's less likely you'll end up in jail for discussing the "wrong" political ideology while that orange shitstained merkin would have me in jail just for writing this were it up to him. Don't make it up to him.
Every time I encounter the "don't vote" brigade, my first thought is that it's a Russian or Chinese troll trying to get Trump elected again.
My second thought, which is a bit more nuanced, is some introspection on what Biden is actually doing. He has three options with regards to Israel, none of them good.
I don't know that Biden is doing a very good job with #3, but #1 would be a catastrophe, and #2 is what Trump wants.
This is a shitty situation in every conceivable way. Our ally, Israel, is currently being run by a corrupt and genocidal freak. There are no good answers to a situation like that beyond Israel coming to its senses and throwing Netanyahu in prison. But there are plenty of really bad answers, and Trump would be the worst.
This post is fully accurate.
I just want to say that there's probably a large contingent of kids who are happy doing nothing because they're not happy with the choices, while the conservatives proceed and reelect that orange turd back into office. If you're American, vote like your libertt depends on it, because it likely does.
Why?
Biden is doing this - he is threatening the ICC and ICJ
Biden is not doing this. We have not stopped weapon shipments and have clearly been unable (more like unwilling) to stop or prevent Israel's genocide
Also, Israel is not our ally. Their geopolitical interests align with Putin. Which is why they are trying to get Trump elected so that they can destroy the remnants of the "rules based international order" and begin in earnest their conquest of Greater Israel
Because Iran is a Russian ally and Russian proxy.
No, he isn't. Where in the world are you getting the idea that he's literally "threatening" either?
Dude, we temporarily halted shipments earlier this month to put pressure on Netanyahu. Were you sleeping?
Netanyahu's interests may align with Putin, but only insofar as both seem hell-bent on destabilizing the region. Putin would gladly let Iran stroll right into Israel and slaughter everyone in it. Israel's own actual interests do not remotely align with Putin's.
Yes, but why does that mean stopping US weapons shipments to Israel would cause Iran to invade/attack/etc? Israel has a huge weapons stockpile and is still a Western ally - they just happen to be committing genocide with American funds and bombs.
https://www.ft.com/content/6700a246-e0cd-49d8-b5ef-d2379e86290f
"The administration of President Joe Biden will work with Congress on possible sanctions against the International Criminal Court after its prosecutor announced it was seeking arrest warrants for senior Israeli and Hamas officials, US secretary of state Antony Blinken said on Tuesday."
We resumed those shipments and funds, and Israel has since crossed Biden's red line and attacked Rafah
Netanyahu/Likud are dictators who control Israel. Until he/they are removed, their interests are Israel's interests. Which means that Israel is a Russian asset with a stranglehold on American funds thanks to AIPAC
I'd just like to remind you folks the headline you're debating under:
Biden/Dems sent the genocide bombs and Haley/Republicans autographed them.
I'm not sure how that improves things
US presidents are required by American law since 2008 to ensure that Israel is better armed than all its neighbours. Biden doesn't have a real choice unless he can get a bill through both houses to stop arming Israel. I don't think that's even remotely realistic.
Trump would be twice as bad for Palestine. "Finish them" is an actual call to genocide.
But you don't care for facts, you just want to blame Biden for everything that you think left wingers might not like so they'll not vote and Trump can get in.
Or else what?
Also, funding and arming genocide is also illegal. And immoral. And stupid.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy_Law
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1091
Sounds like Nikki Haley is supposed to be fined half a million dollars in that there anti genocide law you linked to:
I don't think you can interpret Nikki Haley writing "finish them" on an Israeli bomb as anything other than a call to genocide.
Sorry if that interrupts your attempt to make this news article not about Nikki Haley writing "finish them" on an Israeli bomb.
But she obviously will never be charged. Ever.
Genocide is bad because it's evil, not because it's illegal. Idk why you're fixated on laws here
Which would make Nikki Haley writing "finish them" on an Israeli bomb when Israel is already bombing vast numbers of civilians in Gaza about the most obvious, public and and direct call to completed genocide you could make, I think.
Do you think she did it to make it more likely she'd be picked as Trump's running mate/Secretary of State, or do you think she's just pitching early to be the post-Trump leader, or is she just a run of the mill genocidal maniac?
Who cares? Biden sent the bombs and Netanyahu is using them. She has no power here - they do.
She's evil as a general matter. But Biden and Netanyahu are worse regarding the current genocide
You keep changing the subject away from Nikki Haley's call to genocide. But I'll bite again. The key question for American voters who care about Gaza is whether Trump or Biden are going to be worse for the Palestinians, because the election is on a knife edge according to the polls. Which do you think would be worse?
Biden and Netanyahu are currently perpetrating genocide. Haley is not.
What did Never Again mean after the Holocaust? Did it mean nothing?
You're avoiding the question: The key question for American voters who care about Gaza is whether Trump or Biden are going to be worse for the Palestinians, because the election is on a knife edge according to the polls. Which do you think would be worse?
Biden is currently committing genocide. Which is the worst crime there is.
Trump would also commit genocide.
Biden needs to change his policy on this drastically. Why won't he? If he doesn't, he loses.
Personally, I think it's the Israelis who are committing the genocide with America's support from pretty much all of the Republicans and most of the Democrats, but you didn't answer the question: Up to now, Trump has a slight lead in the polls. Who would be worse for the people of Gaza, Biden or Trump?
It's like asking if Auschwitz or Dachau is worse
Both need to be liberated
You don't admit any moral difference between trying to slow the killing down and trying to speed it up, and the reason is that you're only pretending to care about Gaza what you really care about is discouraging left leaning voters from voting so that your guy Trump can win.
You'll deny it, I'm reasonably sure, but that's the effect of your outright condemnation of Biden and your extreme head in the sand refusal to admit that the Republicans in general, and Trump in particular, are far more committed to the Israeli military and its aims, always have been and likely will be for decades to come.
Biden is not trying to slow the genocide down. He is funding it and arming it.
He is better than Trump on every other issue. There is no difference here on the issue of genocide
Factually incorrect:
Biden: Don't bomb Rafah.
Trump: ....
Biden: Cancels some of the armament shipments
Republicans: object loudly to Biden cancelling armament shipments
Biden: We should have a permanent ceasefire
Trump: PALM BEACH, Fla. — Former President Donald Trump declared Tuesday that Israel must “finish the problem” in its war against Hamas, his most definitive position on the conflict since the terror group killed 1,200 Israelis and took more than 200 hostages on Oct. 7.
The Republicans would accelerate it all. The Republicans share Israel's aim to "finish them".
Israel bombed Rafah and Biden did nothing.
Biden has consistently given Israel all of the military aid it asks for. The "pause" lasted only a few days. And then Israel bombed Rafah
There will not be a permanent ceasefire. This is purely optics to make it look like Biden is doing something. And will be used to blame Hamas and justify additional murder when the negotiations inevitably collapse. It is only for optics
The Republicans are identical to the Dems in terms of policy on the Gazan Genocide. The Dems just use softer language when they exterminate Gazans than the Republicans would.
I don't care what language is used. I don't care about aesthetics. I care about stopping the United States and Israel's extermination of the Gazans. Biden needs to do that, and to enact systemic regime change in Israel to prevent this from ever happening again
Well, I'm not going to get you to admit that Trump and the Republicans plan on being far, far worse for Palestine, and I think that if you really did care about Gaza you'd do whatever you could to keep Trump out of the White House, but you really, really, really don't want to hear it.
I warned you, though. I warned you as best as I could.
Do you think you're good at being persuasive?
The bombs were already there. These are old bombs.
Why is Biden sending bombs then?
Iran.
"The Germans needed the gas to fight back the Soviets - how were we to know they would continue to send our gas to Dachau?"
I would like to solve your trolley problem with multi track drifting please
That's only worked a handful of times, long ago.
So you're saying if I vote, I'll be complicit and won't have anything to complain or blame others about, and have to take responsibility for the consequence of my vote? Fuck that shit!
I don't think I said that. Can you show me where I did?
I will say that you have a slice of responsibility over the future, and you'll have to live with the consequences of whatever decision you end up making - including the one where you sit on your hands. No matter what you do, you can still complain about it, but the future will be whichever one we collectively steer to. One of those possible futures is worse than the other. So it seems to me that we should steer away from it, rather than wrong our hands about how we don't like the choices. Sure, you don't like the choices. They're the choices regardless. Model the outcomes of each possibility, decide which one you hate the least and steer towards it, because we are getting a future selected from among the possibilities. Jesus is not going to rapture us out of this.
Forgot the /s. But the kids seem to believe that sitting it out in protest is better than voting the lesser of 2 evils. This is how a dictator comes into power. Agree with everything you said.
Yeah, I've been having this argument a lot lately, so the sarcasm shit right past me. It's exhausting trying to get people to understand that no, really, genocide a * 3 plus additional genocide b is worse than genocide a alone.
You do realize that "less than ideal" is probably an inadequate way to describe Joe funding a genocidal apartheid, right?
It's astonishing to me how comfortable you are with fascism, provided it wears a blue jersey.
Yes. Humans are given to certainty and judgement in excess of what the evidence merits, so I have taken to understatement.
I'm not convinced that Joe Biden is fascism, though. Would you be so kind as to compare him to Umberto eco's list, and share examples on each point? Trump seems like a much better match to that, but perhaps I have missed something.