Driving manual is just fondling a shaft every couple of seconds. Sounds gay to me.
this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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STOP DOING SCIENCE
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I'm a driving instructor from the UK who teaches automatic. I'll try and keep this as brief as possible!
There are 3 main types of automatic gearbox: CVT, DCT, and ATM.
- CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission)
CVTs don't have traditional gears, but are based on a system which pulls and pushes on a belt to keep the engine in an optimal rev range. They have a torque converter which, when the car is in D ('Drive'), will cause the car to want to pull forward. It's the automatic equivalent of finding the bite. The power from the torque converter is often enough for most hills, but you may get some slight roll-back on some steeper hills. At this point, I often teach my learners to do a traditional hill start (handbrake up, slight pressure on the accelerator, handbrake down). On cars with electric handbrakes, I often find that these cars tend to have their own assisted hill start systems which prevent roll-back without needing to pull a handbrake.
You will find CVTs in an overwhelming majority of lower to mid class cars.
- DCT (Dual-Clutch Transmission)
These have a huge variety of names depending on the brand, but all do very similar things. In a DCT you have traditional gears, but you also have two clutches; this is to make shifting seamless. When you accelerate, it readies the next higher gear so that when it's ready to change it will do so instantaneously. When you're pressing the brake, it will ready the next lower gear and shift down seamlessly when ready. These vehicles also have a torque converter and work exactly as described above.
You'll find DCTs in most mid to higher class cars.
- AMT "Automated Manual Transmission".
CVTs and DCTs are heavy, so in places like Europe and Japan where lightweight eco boxes rule the roads, an automatic gearbox doesn't make a lot of sense (and is likely a big contributing factor as to why manual transmissions are more common in these places than in America). Ergo, the AMT was conceived. It takes a basic manual transmission, removes the clutch pedal and replaces it with a computer program which does all the leg work for you. It weighs basically the same as a manual transmission, it's extremely cheap in comparison to the other two options, and vastly cheaper to repair. Sadly there are drawbacks, and one such drawback is that these don't have torque converters.
So, what happens instead is that the clutch doesn't 'bite' until you press the accelerator. This means that whilst you're standing still, the car is free to roll with gravity, even if you're in Drive! Even the slightest hill will have you rolling, making it imperative that you use the handbrake when you come to a stop.
As mentioned, you'll tend to find AMTs in a lot of tiny eco boxes, especially older ones. A lot of modern cars which would have had AMTs are being built with CVTs instead.
Fun fact: I used to drive a 3.5 tonne Iveco van that had an AMT. It was bloody awful!
I've experienced a DCT with e-break and hill assist that stops the hill holder when pressing the accelerator even though the torque generated is not yet enough to actually keep the car from rolling back. This same car has a very twitchy accelator where, while on a hill it will not really react to pressing the accelerator until a certain tiny threshold is reached, at which point in shoots forward aggressively if you overshot the threshold.
As a result, on a hill while releasing the break, the car stays put, touching the accelerator gently to find the threshold will have you roll back hitting the car behind and pressing the accelerator harder to avoid this will have you lurch forward hitting the car in front. It's never been a problem in traffic because you have time to react to these weird behaviours, but between very tightly parked cars, it is a nightmare.
"use the handbrake when you come to a stop"
What the fuck are you talking about? Just hold the brake pedal.
I'm talking about hills. Holding the brake is fine when you're relatively level, but if you're pointing up hill the car will roll back if it doesn't have hill start assist.
I know most people will just hold brakes and move quickly towards the accelerator, but I'm an instructor as I mentioned; it's a different ball game for learners. In test conditions if they try that and miss the pedal, they'll roll back and will get a minor for rolling back, or even fail their test if the examiner has to stop them.
So yes, I teach them to use the handbrake because it's much less stressful and less likely to lead to a mistake that will lead to panicking.
Bad for manual or automatic shifting? In my experience, works fine on both, but I know people who are mentally incapable of a proper handbrake start on a hill. They simply do not understand the required timing.
The real issue is when you’re in a truck that doesnt have a handbrake! That’s some tricky foot-work timing and clutch slipping that take people even longer to learn! The parking brake is either a foot pedal or on big commercial trucks- air.
I haven't had issues doing hill starts with air handbrakes, basically the same deal really as a regular handbrake just without feedback through the lever.
Never had to try a hill start with a foot handbrake though, I imagine those could make things harder.
Ya, i could see that setup being similar . But the truck i drove was basically a button, not a lever, lol. so steep hills you just do some good slipping and quick feet!
A foot handbrake wouldnt even be possible, those are pretty much just parking brakes. They are on a ratchet type system, too. The further you push the pedal the harder the brakes grab and the pedal holds that position automatically, the only way to release is either pull the “release” lever with your hand, which requires you to bend way over so you cant see the road. Or re-apply foot pressure to release, depending on the design. You’d need 3 feet, pretty much.
The trick is to actually know what you're doing and not use the handbrake unless you're parking the car and exiting it. I don't know where the handbrake on stops shit comes from but in 20 years of driving manual I never had to do that a single time.
i used to live i a pretty mountainous area, and handbrake starts can be absolutely necessary… on a steep hill where you roll backwards a couple of metres before you can quickly move from the brake to the accelerator and clutch, its just dangerous to do it any other way (not to mention i imagine it’d fuck your clutch plate relatively quickly because it’s have to slip a LOT to arrest your significant backwards momentum)
… and honestly i’m so used to it i just do it on every even slight hill because it’s just… easy? makes you less “quick engage and accelerate” because you don’t have to worry about it: the car is always under control; you’re never rolling; take whatever time you need
I also used to live in a mountainous area so I'm no stranger to it either...
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Hill starts on an automatic are nothing. As soon as you let off the brake the torque converter will more-or-less hold the car in place until you get over to the accelerator pedal. There used to be (hell maybe still is) a bad-habit of drivers where they wouldnt use brakes at all while stopped on a hill and just let the transmission “hold” the car in place. This is bad because it causes the transmission to heat up from the excess pressure and it’s unsafe.
If the hill is steep enough, gravity can overcome the transmission and you can roll backwards, but just press on the go pedal and you start going forwards. There’s no stalling, just “slipping” internally in the transmission at the torque converter, which is exactly what it’s designed to do.
What about dct?
There's no torque converter.
Those are often starting less smooth in my experience.
I once had a VW Transporter with torque converter that always rolled backwards slightly. (Only very slightly) It appeared that it disengaged the whole torque converter while stopped. (The rpm "relaxed" after stopping.) That was a bit weird.
You know your not supposed to take 10 seconds to move your foot from the brake to the gas pedal, right?
(dontfeedthetrolldontfeedthetrolldont.. ah, damnit!)
The torque converter is usually always engaged, always wants to go, while holding the brake. As soon as the brakes are released the car starts rolling forward.
With the VW T4 that didn't work as on other cars since the torque converter was disengaged while stopping.
So the driver had to change to the accelerator more quickly than usual, if starting uphill.
Otherwise, since the torque converter engaged only a second after releasing the brake, the car would roll approximately 5cm backwards before going forward. (If starting without any accelerator input.)
The benefit of an automatic is that you don’t really have to think about it. You put your car into park, (most people don’t even pull the parking brake) and walk away. Easy.
However, while many will find hill starts frustrating, it’s because they find manual driving frustrating. You have to think, to feel, to react, not just hit a button or switch to “D” and hit the accelerator. Personally, I would love a manual in my car, for its many other benefits, but I do understand why automatics are the majority in America. You just let the car do the thinking for you.
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The one on the right is actually just a regular auto (no high/low transfer case) with an unusual control layout. Called the Hurst Lightning Rods it's supposed to imitate drag racing setups of the time with separate levers so you don't mis shift and blow your engine/gearbox.
Oh, I do miss going to see relatives who had old 90s Land Rovers. They felt so alien.
To add to the correction someone else posted: It's pretty rare that you'll see 4x4/4wd vehicles with three sticks. The example you gave is from a Lada Niva where you can lock the center differential without engaging low gears or engage low gears without locking the center differential. Most 4wd vehicles will just have a second stick with 4wd, 4wd lock, 4wd low.
With all that chagrin about automatic i wonder what will you say about electric vehicles.
I don't mind traditional autos that much as long as they have positive shifts (not a "slushbox") and have predictable shift points.
CVT's can fuck right off though. I swear every single manufacturer building a CVT tries to tune it to act like a "normal" auto transmission and it just makes it feel god awful. If you're gonna lie to me just make it act like a damn CVT, rev the engine to it's peak power band, and fucking hold it there!!!!