this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
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Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, this week announced that Israel would retain an open-ended security presence in Gaza. Israeli officials talk of imposing a buffer zone to keep Palestinians away from the Israeli border. They rule out any role for the Palestinian Authority, which was ousted from Gaza by Hamas in 2007 but governs semi-autonomous areas of the occupied West Bank.

The United States has laid out a much different vision. Top officials have said they will not allow Israel to reoccupy Gaza or further shrink its already small territory. They have repeatedly called for a return of the internationally recognized Palestinian Authority and the resumption of peace talks aimed at establishing a Palestinian state alongside Israel.

These conflicting visions have set the stage for difficult discussions between Israel and the U.S.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Crazed strongman Netanyahu wants to kill all of the Palestinians, while the US wants him to kill less than that.

[–] Kbobabob 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

The US could end this quickly if they wanted to by just threatening to take away support. Where would Israel be without the iron dome?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago

Welcome to Israel. Where beggars CAN be choosers!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

No, they couldn't.

That would lead Israel to realign to either China or to another NATO power.

Then maybe share their US tech with them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Well...without a reliable way to stop the rockets shooting into Israel, I guess they'd have to make sure the rockets aren't launched in the first place.

So yeah, they'd probably step up the war, only now with the explicit objective of wiping out all of Gaza since it's the only way they can prevent attacks.

Israel is VERY aware that support might disappear for them someday. That's the entire point of the nation, so that Jews, who have been persecuted for over two thousand years, do not need to rely on the benevolence of others to defend them. They have their own munitions stockpiles and factories and are themselves an advanced technological nation, not dependent on the US to fight Hamas. They are perfectly capable of wiping out the Gaza strip without outside assistance.

Plus, your question is based on a false premise anyway. Iron Dome is a system invented, developed, designed, and built in Israel. The US did put some money into it, but not an amount Israel could not have. So without US aid, Israel would be somewhat worse off, but overall totally fine.

[–] sailingbythelee 7 points 9 months ago

I think this is pretty close to the truth. However, Netanyahu is pragmatic and knows he can't actually kill them all. Rather, his goal is to make conditions in Gaza so unliveable that the Palestinians will have to leave.

What will the US do? It will keep pushing the 2-state solution. Since neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are ready for that yet, it effectively means that the killing will continue until the Gazan Palestinians leave or are so beaten down that they'll agree to almost anything, or until average Israelis cool down and push the conservative coalition government out of power. Getting to those conditions will still take months.

I don't think that most of the rest of the world gives a shit. Sure, some people will protest Israel's actions, but all the big countries, East and West, have more pressing problems. Putin is already at war with Ukraine. Xi frets about Taiwan and the South China Sea, slowing economic growth, and is busy with another round of internal purges. Europe is far more worried about Ukraine than Gaza. They have to spend billions ramping up their militaries again, and Germany's economic engine is sputtering. The US is too embroiled in its own domestic political problems. The US is also, rightly, much more concerned about the serious geostrategic competition coming from China. Even the surrounding Arab countries don't care all that much. They aren't going to go to war against Israel again, that's for sure.

The hard truth is that Gaza just doesn't matter that much geo-strategically.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (7 children)

Yup. The hard right in Israel opposes a two state solution.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago (3 children)

If Netanyahu wants to fuck around he can damn well find out when America cuts off the funding faucet.

[–] Wermhatswormhat 19 points 10 months ago

Man. I wish that were the case. But I feel like America is too deep in bed with Israel to stop now. A man can dream though, a man can dream.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

That will never happen. Israel is the US's main base of power in the Middle East. That is the US government's number one priority here.

We could have videos of IDF forces chopping off Palestinian babies' heads and the US would not stop supporting Israel. They would just have some strong words to say about it.

[–] Maggoty 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

We have far more invested in Iraq these days.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Investment doesn't equal usefulness. Israel is a relatively stable and modern country, and centrally located to boot.

The US left Iraq a mess. Not a great place for hosting your resources.

[–] Maggoty 2 points 9 months ago

We don't host many resources in Israel though. We use the Arabian peninsula countries and Iraq.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This is going to take time. What to do with Gaza and Palestinians is going to take a lot of commitment. The US wants to unite the West bank with Gaza, and the current power level is opposed.

[–] dustyData 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (7 children)

That would be hard, considering the west bank exist exclusively on paper. In reality, Palestinians only have a couple dozen of hamlets surrounded and guarded by Israelis who subject them to an apartheid. The rest of the west bank is Israeli settlements.

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[–] middlemanSI 11 points 9 months ago

Both should fuck off and restore Palestine. There would be no "terrorists", if the people were allowed to live in the first place. Are you blind or dishonest?

[–] chitak166 6 points 9 months ago

Israel gets its way, US sends as much aid as Israel wants.

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