Asklemmy

20+ years ago, when I was a freshman in high school, a Palestinian refugee joined our class. He mentioned off-handedly how quiet it was where we lived at night - he was used to hearing rockets/bombs all night while trying to sleep.

Then I started reading.

I've always stood with Palestine.

I'm genX, so South African apartheid was constantly on the news through my childhood. It doesn't take much to see that Israel is just as shitty.

Two things:

1. two different Israeli tourists told me that Palestinians were animals during the course of different conversations at different times

2).I saw Five Broken Cameras

Those both happened at least a decade ago, and I've been pretty vocal about my condemnation of IDF violence since that point, and it's been insane to have gotten s*** about supporting Palestine for so many years and then in the last few months see a complete reversal of the American perspective.

I've actually had someone reach out to me to ask some clarifying questions now that the hospital bombings and IDF invasions happening for decades are actually being reported on and there's no way to ignore the overwhelming military and cultural advantage israel has in this conflict.

I've never really understood people wanting to travel there or even move there as the danger of terrorist attacks seemed to high to risk it (and I travelled quite a bit in the world).

But when I looked into it to resolve my ignorance the apartheid nature seemed very clear to me (I had family in SA) so I was aware of the issue. So since a couple of years ago, maybe even a decade, the politics of Israel were very much against what I deem right and productive.. or ethical.

So superficially I was for Israel (history class in school, Western news reporting, etc.) before I started inform myself.

I knew about the Free Palestine movement before the war but never knew much about the details. I didn't know what Palestine was, exactly. I knew Hamas was a terrorist organization but couldn't tell you what country they were in.

Then the attacks happened, and I saw a huge disparity among my friends. About half supported Palestine and half supported Israel, so I decided to spend a night researching the history of the conflict. That was an eye opener.

Westerner and was never brought up that one side was good or bad but that there was a failure of separation of church and state and this has led to a horrific unsolvable mess. Modern westerners are pretty sensitive to terrorism though and if you are a small religious sect attacking an established nation-state that has been an ally to western nations, yeah you become the greater evil in the eyes of most with a western upbringing. Other than the children, there aren't a whole lot of innocents involved here. It's many shades of grey. For those that have a voice in choosing leaders, I advise to lean against choosing any with strong religious convictions - even if they align with your own. Keep government secular.

Talking with a LGBTQ muslim lady on Facebook 9 years ago. I was an islamophobe/Israel praising person and I had the lucky to find this chill and lovely woman who spent her time talking with me about islamophobia in general and the Palestinian situation as well, despite not being her obligation to do so. Thank you, Maryam for being a teacher for me!

Used to think Israel action is fair because Hamas been firing rocket in those building, but i'm not sure what and why this one particular incident that somehow started disillusion me. It's the bombing of a high-rise housing Associated Press and Al Jazeera, Israel claimed it's used by Hamas, but never provided any proof afterward.

Then a year later, the murder of journalist Shireen Abu Akleh. Israel blame Palestine but later investigation found out that it's the Israel force that did it.

Then i dig deeper and found out they kill children without reason, and it's a well documented fact.

When Hamas intentionally killed innocent children with no agenda but to do just that then we had Palestinians in Western nations on the streets openly celebrating it, I realize that Hamas needed to go altogether. When Hamas would hold hostages under hospitals and hide behind Palestinian shields, I knew it was pretty much impossible to not have a great number of civilian deaths. We had possible treaty under Arafat but those were negotiated under bad faith by the Palestinian leaders and fell apart. No amount of aid will help the Palestinians when a great deal of it goes to Hamas.

The sheer number of people, organizations, and national institutions that fell over each other in scrambling to support Israel/condemn Hammas set off my bullshit detector.

I'm still not taking sides, but the pro-Israel blitzkrieg is so over the top that I don't accept it at face value. Someone's trying to sell me something.

I'm not taking any sides. I knew it was a stupid fucking holy war. Israel is pretty big as it is anyways and so they take out everything on a slice of land they dwarf?

Just more senseless suffering over belief. Fuck all of it.

When it was explained to me 25+ years ago how Israel was invented, and so I did further reading. Religious divides are wrong in every way, and they are prevent neighbourly integration, so I decided I disagree with Israel as a concept, just as I disagree with all apartheid systems. This invasion just solidified my opinion.

And bias in the media? The news here in Oz yesterday covered an orphaned four-year-old being returned to her family just because she was American/Israeli. It left out the many other orphaned four-year-olds dead or dying or lying in pain and fear, without medical attention, because of Israels "action". The ones killed and injured with weapons Israel is lying about using, such as phosphorus. The media are biased as all get out. Poor little kids didn't have a chance.

If you can't do anything to actually help what good will do getting anxious and dread about it? If you can, donate to orgs, volunteer...

I've learned a lot more over time, especially recently. I never had a eureka moment though. Everyone deserves to live in peace and with basic human rights. I'll always advocate for that. Specifically this conflict though is between a Democratic state who has done fucked up shit and a genocidal fundmentalist terrorist group. There is still a clearly much less bad side here.

My experience was the opposite, I started out more sympathetic to Palestine until I learned more about the conflict. When I hear the UN and human rights agencies call Israel genocidal, an apartheid state, and ethnic cleansers, it made it seem like they are the bad guys until I read up on it. I no longer think these definitions are accurate, at least not how they are commonly used, (these definitions depend on treating a national group like an ethnic group and ignoring the fact that they remain violently belligerent, and that these same ethnic groups exist within Israel with full legal rights.)

Then I learned about the history of this conflict, and how Palestinian Arabs started the violence which led to their present situation, (most notably they instigated all the earliest massacres in Mandatory Palestine making a one-state solution impossible & starting the cycle of violence in earnest, declared war on Israel in '48 and lost, and intended to invade in the six-day war and were defeated.) When their forces were the victors they mortared civilians indiscriminately and drove every Jew from Jerusalem and the West Bank. Their sympathizers drove Jews from the Muslim world. When given free elections they elected Hamas, who is explicitly genocidal. I can't help but find it ironic when they accuse Israel of similar behaviors and plead for international actors to stop them.

I also take great issue with Palestinian behaviors and popular opinion regarding women's equality, LGBT rights, support of Intifada/genocide/denying rights to Jews, extreme religiosity, and treatment of Atheists and apostates. As a bisexual man I cannot support a regime that would throw me in prison or off a building for being who I am.

Today I see Palestine as a belligerent nation that was defeated overwhelmingly yet refuses to concede, is abhorrent when it comes to civil rights, and wants to continue endless terror attacks against Israel despite having no hope in winning militarily. They have instead chosen to keep fighting a fruitless war of terror against an enemy they cannot defeat, ensuring the cycle of violence continues indefinitely.

There are certainly valid criticisms of Israel as well, but their civil rights record is far better and their society more tolerant. I find the spike in support on the left for would-be genociders with a mediaeval mindset to be baffling and disheartening. They oppose what the left stands for.

A big one for me was being told that it’s not an equal fight. It’s not two equally strong countries

Why does the fact that this war is asymmetrical matter? Should they not retaliate because their retaliation would be too effective? At one time Israel was the underdog, and their cause hasn't changed. They want safety.

Try watching Novara Media, very informative and good analysis