this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2023
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Rocket League

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SpezCanLigmaBalls
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What’s the point of fast kickoff if everyone perfects it (self.rocketleague)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by SpezCanLigmaBalls to c/rocketleague
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If everyone at higher ranks has it figured out what’s the point? Like I can understand when someone doesn’t do it but what’s the difference than doing a normal one if people have it down to a science

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Because it's not "only" about who gets to ball first, but controlling where the ball goes after kick off. If say for 2 players where 1 can always tip the ball away and still keep possession of the ball after kick off, it's very advantageous in 1s, slightly better for 2s, and okay-ish in 3s if it doesn't get pinched and heading directly to goal.

So in 1s, if you can control where the ball goes after kick off, it's like you have 2~3 goals lead just by having kick off goals. If your goal is to save boost and control where the ball goes, you still need to learn speedflip or read the speedflip so you can control the result of the 50s. But you can't go too slow otherwise the speed flip have a free shot on net if they choose to.

On 2s and 3s at higher rank there are different meta but generally it involves losing slightly to your side so your tm8s can follow up. You still can't just lose out right (not touching the ball at all during kick off, unless it's fake kick off position. )

[–] SpezCanLigmaBalls 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah I see that. I only play 2s or 3s. I’ve just seen a lot of times when the other team goes for the fast kickoff and it does not go well for them. Seems to be more on the negative than positive for other team. Idk how it is at higher ranks though.

I’ve found that as long as teammates know how to play kickoffs correctly in case something does happen it isn’t the biggest deal not doing fast kickoff. Just my thoughts though but in 1s I can for sure see it helping

[–] Snazz 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you aren’t doing a speed kickoff at c3, people will start taking advantage of it. One of my favorite diagonal kickoffs is a speedflip followed by a sideflip to force the ball to my back corner while I rush to the opposite side mid boost. but if the opponent doesn't speedflip, it tends to send the ball sailing to the bottom corner of their net.

If they try to counter this kickoff by coming at the ball from a more central angle, I can aim my speedflip to land on the other side of the ball and touch it around them by hitting it to the wall.

It is true that is most cases (outside of 1v1) their teammate can save the ball, but it still a significant advantage if you can consistently touch the ball around the first player.

[–] SpezCanLigmaBalls 2 points 1 year ago

This is the type of answer I was looking for. Thanks for explaining exactly how you do it and what you can expect the result to look like. Make a lot of sense

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

anyway, learn it give you insight what it can do and options. ie, like using ceiling reset to defend ceiling shot and off wall flip resets. and it's useful ground movement since you use less boost. generally and landed pretty straight compare to just diagonal flip. (it also help to train the flip cancel shot's timing, a lot of modern stuff involves cancel the dodge at right timing. )

[–] SpezCanLigmaBalls 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Will do. I’ve tried it a bit. I’ve just never really gone into free play or training and practiced stuff. I just play and learn but that one’s kinda hard lol. My buddy told me how to do it though and sometimes I can but it’s usually a mess lol. Just never committed

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

there is a bakkesmod speedflip training plugin in that should go with a custom training pack.

https://bakkesplugins.com/plugins/view/286

very helpful to identify your input issues.

[–] SpezCanLigmaBalls 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unfortunately I’m on Xbox but I appreciate it

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

welp, you can still use the training pack though.

[–] Moonguide 2 points 1 year ago

Dont mean to necro, but also, at least in 1s, gives you a tool to condition the enemy player. Couple of speedflips and they'll do the same for the third. Might just be you're able to fake them into giving away possession.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

At lower ranks, speedflip kickoffs are generally used to get to the ball much faster than your opponent and then chip it over them for a free goal. These kickoffs generally prioritize speed over getting a good hit box on the ball, the plan is for your opponent to not even get a touch. At higher ranks where most people know how to speedflip, its used to get a good hit box of the ball, but faster. Getting to the ball first allows you to have more control over how the kickoff develops and therefore is something that people are very interested in. If you try to use a regular flip at high ranks you'll find yourself losing most of your kickoffs due to this speed difference.

[–] cevn 2 points 1 year ago

I think about it this way. I have not been able to master speed flip yet. But all these washed diamonds and champs are speedflipping me.

The speed flip probably adds x amount of mmr advantage. But if they have the same MMR as you, that means it's coming from somewhere else. Their decisionmaking, overall ball control, or teamwork is worse than yours. All you have to do is survive kickoff and find that weakness.

[–] 9tr6gyp3 1 points 1 year ago

What are the alternatives?

  1. Learn speed flips and you will have a chance to control the ball at midfield vs another speed flipper.

  2. Don't learn speed flips and lose control of ball vs speed flipper.

  3. Learn speed flip and you will win control of ball vs non-speed flipper.

While there might be a slight advantage in losing a kickoff in a certain way in 3v3, its something you have to communicate and effectively execute with your team, otherwise it doesn't help at all.

[–] SquishMallow 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This feels like an odd question. What's the point of mastering anything if someone else also will? That's what this logic sounds like. All mechanics you learn and all forms of positioning and ball control are tools to be leveraged. You get good with them and decide when to leverage them. Sometimes you go back and forth to keep your opponent on their toes. In either case, yeah as you grow so do your opponents. You're waiting to expose and exploit a mistake on the opponent's end.

[–] SpezCanLigmaBalls 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When you master an air dribble you’re not going to 50/50 your opponent every single time. It’s different in this situation. If you have 2 masters of speed kickoff go at it it’s going to be 50/50 every. Single. Time. Literally no different than just doing a normal kickoff.

When you are doing an air dribble your opponent is also not doing the same exact thing because it’s literally impossible. You see?

[–] SquishMallow 1 points 1 year ago

It's not 50/50 though. If you consistently watch the top pro players, there is constant nuance. Sometimes they decide to fake last split second. Sometimes they delay intentionally for just a brief moment. Sometimes they go for an actual full speed commit. They mix it up and pay full attention to their opponent all the way to the last fraction of a second before ball touch. They aren't going to do the same thing I've and over again. However, even if they did, mastering the skill becomes essential to keep things 50/50 rather than giving the opponent the advantage. Even if it doesn't get you ahead, it becomes essential as a means of defense.