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I saw a good article on c/upliftingnews about AI improving traffic signal controllers. It's good and all, I just can't help but think of the "look at what they need to have a fraction of our power" meme while reading it
Aren't bikes also required to stop at red lights?
Yes, but you don't need lights if there are only bikes. Lights are there to prevent heavy vehicles from colliding. If there are no heavy vehicles, then the lights aren't needed.
Also since bikes take up less space more can cross in the same time
So you're ok with getting hit by another bike (or several) when you go through an intersection.
Unless you live in a small town, if everyone used bikes, city centre intersections would be mostly mountains of crashed bikes and people trying to get out of that mess while more bikes continue to pile on.
All green on a large car intersection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIqCei97M74
Intersection designed for bikes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQrKP9a0XE
People on bikes naturally avoid and communicate with each other non-verbally.
I live in the Netherlands. There are so many bikes there is traffic jams out of bikes, there are piles of bikes everywhere.
No, you don't need traffic lights for bikes, only if there are high speed heavy vehicles. I wouldn't even say it's just the heaviness, it's the heaviness coupled with speed that makes them necessary.
Ok, I need to experience this myself, but I'll take your word for it.
I was just thinking of the normal speed I cycle at when going to work, which is 25 - 30 km/h, and can't imagine that not causing issues on intersections if there were no red lights.
Of course the answer is to slow down at intersections :)
Yes, but depending on the locality they may only need to treat it as a stop sign (and can proceed if it’s clear) instead of waiting for a green.
Not always (which I'll mention in a moment) but:
Alright, blocking this community. It's getting to be a bit of a pessimistic vacuum chamber, which is one of the reasons I was okay abandoning Reddit.
Good message overall. Good luck everyone
Sorry if it came across that way, I don't mean it pessimistically. The improvements the article talks about are great.
I just imagine asking random people "Is a 30% reduction in traffic exciting?" And they say "Yes--BUT only if you do it with AI and high-tech stuff Otherwise I couldn't care less".
Imagining that kind of response is hilarious to me.
What did you expect from a community called "fuck_cars"?
I mean I actually kinda agree with them. I don't like vacuum chambers and some of the stuff on here really does ignore the practicality of people's situations.
I'm on here for the good arguments and laughs, not getting in so deep that I think everyone can and should sell their car tomorrow.
I own a car and am resentful of the fact that they are pretty much mandatory in my country, but I don't think this community is overly pessimistic or a vacuum chamber.
That said, departure announcements like the one we are talking about here look like attempts to stir up drama rather than attempts at an actual conversation.
It's not a vacuum chamber. All you gotta do is step outside in 99% the USA to get the other aide of the story, as we all do every day
Do you know what a vacuum chamber is?
Yes, and internet communities don't exist at 0 psi
In a vacuum chamber, no-one can hear your internet arguments...
(hey guys I think you meant echo chamber)
k
Bikes also have to stop at traffic lights.
Shh, you're not supposed to tell them that!
Improving traffic lights doesn't require AI, you just need sensors and some basic code to respond accordingly.
Most lights in the us run on a cycle without accounting for traffic at all. Most don't even take into account the time of day.
Car dependent design is bad. But the us can't even do car dependency well. You have to constantly wait at a light to leave the intersection clear for no one.
The solution is not AI the solution is having people responsible who care at least somewhat.
So I do reinforcement learning research at my university, and the coworker I sit next to everyday does traffic signal optimization using multi agent reinforcement learning and simulation. (E.g. his reseach is on stuff like this paper)
And we literally agree with you; sensors are THE problem for 90% of the inefficiency. Its rare to even know how many cars pass through in a day, or whether its 1 or 500 cars waiting at a light. However, Google knows (or can approximate), which is partially why they and they alone can get something like 30% improvement.
The other 10% inefficiemcy is coordination stuff though, which can be more difficult than you might think to fix.
outside the rush hours that is true.
in the rush hours it gets tricky because of effects like a light turning green, but traffic being jammed from a red light before. For these you need a network model and it is crazy complicated to adequately model and optimise even just a small street network.
So yeah, best solution is to reduce car traffic as a whole.
No one mention on how this AI would treat peatons or if they even know they exists at all. Stop measuring traffic by speed and throughput and start measuring safety.
Then roundabouts need to be used instead of red lights.
Absolutely. After moving from a roundabout-less country to Ireland, I wish every red light was replaced with one. The only drawback is that they're more complicated than red lights and many people don't know how to use them properly (or don't care).
And they take up a lot more space than traffic lights.
The trade off for improved traffic flow is worth it unless space is at a premium, which tends to be the case in high density cities.
Sao Paulo have a lot of them on the middle of some high density neighborhoods, they work great as traffic calm measures because you can't blast though a street because they are a roundabout on each intersection.
Ah yes, the bike riders that think they don't have to obey road laws. Very powerful.
At least in my town the cross-walk sign is on while the light is still red (and bikes are officially allowed to follow pedestrian rules in my town, which is usual for the US). So kinda yeah, they do get to ignore vehicular road laws.
It greatly varies by state. In mine they are supposed to follow the same rules as automobiles.
Same here in Germany. One noteworthy exception though... Like, they are allowed to drive in both directions on a one way only street.