American, Japanese, and European car manufacturers had decades head start in this area and they blew it chasing higher profit margins on large trucks and SUVs with lax EPA gas mileage restrictions at a time when climate change has become a major crisis.
this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2023
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Who Killed the Electric Car is an excellent look at early EV business in North America
Petrol cars go brrrrrr
I still get angry thinking of what happened
And BS green washing with dead end hydrogen demo cars.
Yeah they're so weirdly fucking attached to hydrogen cars even though there has never been anything even remotely approaching a solution to their problems.
The execs could make extra money double dipping from oil companies, they are taking marketing funds from oil companies pushing hydrogen too.
Utility companies are often public and even otherwise evs don't really have the same margins for electricity.
I’m curious if the “climate change is a hoax” stuff is as prominent in China as the US. I’ve run into so many people who hate EVs solely because they think climate change is a hoax and EVs are just another way to scam them out of money for a lower quality vehicle… despite any evidence of EVs being better quality
American gasoline cars suck and are more embarrassing than other country's gasoline cars, but Chinese EVs are not at all a viable competitor in the market yet and so far have consistently failed to even gain a foothold for 15 years straight.
If you have any counterargument to that, I'd like to see it.
Governments worldwide should support their auto industries because it’s fundamental to any country’s GDP and future wealth base
I believe this to be the completely wrong approach. Europe shouldn't feel threatened. They should make cars much less important. Europe should be investing in green tech and public transport (buses, metros, trams, trains) so much that the average person doesn't even want a car. That a car is only required for very specific tasks that otherwise cannot be done without other modes of transport.
China could make the best car ever and it wouldn't matter if it cars had a tiny market. But when you read the advice given by car-addicted, car-centric people, then can't think of making cars less important. It goes completely against their beliefs, no matter how much it harms the environment, citizens, and governments. They just want that shiny new car-sized iPhone.
But what are those "very specifc tasks"? And public transportation makes complete sense but how feasable is it to implement in low density areas?
Low density areas are mostly subsidized by high density areas. Good public transport everywhere will probably mean people will be more willing to return to lower density areas.
And specific tasks are things like transporting heavy, cumbersome articles like a fridge, couch, cupboards, and so on. Not something that happens every day. There might be others, but they are most likely limited to a small section of the population or very occasional.
I'm failling to follow the connection.
High density areas are usually connected with proximity to large sea or river ports, where movement of goods is facilitated, thus creating jobs, which attracte people. Low density areas simple lack such infrastructure.
One municipality will not transfer funds to another and central government will not do so as well, as fund transfers are usually tied to population numbers.
Again, I want public transportation but at best, if I'm following the reasoning correctly, such a model would be feasible at suburbia not smaller towns. A good rail conection would do wonders to facilitate movement of commercial cargo to and from these sites and long distance travelling but would not afect the day to day needs of the locals, as such low density areas are hard to implement local public transport.
I agree on those tasks but people shop routinely, if for nothing else, for groceries, and the current model of business preys on collapsing small local shops in favor of large retail venues. A weekly grocery run for a family of four is cumbersome. We can shift to an eshopping & delivery model but are we willing to let others choose for us our food?
Eliminating the of personal transportation predicates on turning back a good number of business models and urban planning models very dificult to revert.
I'm not sure where you're from, but your assumptions might be right for your area or country, but that doesn't count for all of Europe.
Switzerland has great public transport throughout the country. I can attest to that myself, but if you want to, watch NotJustBikes talk about it. Probably you can find better sources if you want to. Also, Luxembourg has free public transport in the entire country. Yes, it's small already, but even villages with 50 people have a bus riding through it about once an hour. Parts of France are actually trying to copy that model:
- https://www.thelocal.fr/20210611/where-in-france-can-you-travel-on-public-transport-for-free
- https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210519-how-france-is-testing-free-public-transport
A weekly grocery run for a family of four is cumbersome. We can shift to an eshopping & delivery model but are we willing to let others choose for us our food?
- You can get a electrical cargo-bike.
- What do you mean others choose your food? You choose the food and they bring it to you. Same as when you order shoes, a phone, or any other goods.
Eliminating the of personal transportation predicates on turning back a good number of business models and urban planning models very dificult to revert.
It's more the mindset that's difficult to revert. Town centers become livelier with better public transport as people don't have to cede way to cars. Businesses and citizens get more space to spread out too. Better public transport also helps teens and young adults become independent more quickly as they do not have to rely on their parents to provide a car for them. It also decreases the costs for citizens and communes alike. (read the articles about French communes introducing free transport)
Cars are really expensive another youtube video explains. It's specific to Germany and the dude cites this document from a German association (run it through google translate).
So yes, investing in public transport in low density areas is beneficial for citizens, the state, and can even be funded by communes themselves (again see France), but it's better when the federal government does so (if the country is a federation).
I'm in Portugal.
I moved from a big city tp a small inland city and public transportation is simply not very feaseable here. And it exists, nonetheless!
The local bus passes once every hour or 45 minutes. This is not a good way to move, as a simple shopping trip can take easily two hours. The quick and easier fix for this would be putting more vehicles in circulation - and people want it - but no more vehicles are added.
The bus here and on many more places in my country is faced with very wide routes, that require a good amount of time to run. We're too scattered. Not doubting it works for others - I want here too! - but not easily doable here.
For shopping, particularly food, no offense but I like to personally pick what I buy. As someone who worked on a perishables provider, I still remember to this day the stuff that was shipped to customers and how stock was normally (mis)handled. Even clothing is a risk. Other items, sure; but food?
As someone who enjoys walking in general, I'd welcome more pedestrian friendlier cities but that also requires small shops to return and those are being hard pressed to cease to exist.
I've visited Portugal only once, so my experience is very limited with the country, but public transport wasn't very good even in Lisbon in my experience. Don't know if there are portugese cities with better public transport, but if that's the best Portugal has, then your opinion is certainly understandable.
Not only that, Portugal sits close to the middle of the pack in population density, not far from France and their public transport is certainly only good in and around cities.
It still is undeniable that cars are quite costly. It would save Portugal money to actually invest in better public transport, maybe even make it free. Free or affordable public transport increases the frequency of buses as the ridership increases.
The biggest difficulty is changing the public perception of cars as a status symbol and the feeling of "freedom". The freedom one gets from free public transport is difficult to comprehend, I think. One can just hop on the bus, step out at a random place, rent a bike, explore, and hop onto the next bus with barely any planning except for getting back.
In France, the number of visits people made to shops outside of the center actually increased.
Anyway, I wish you good luck in Portugal.
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If they aren't cheap, celophane-wrapped, Amazon-style, random-string-of-letters brand, low quality bullshit... Then I will definitely be very interested.
Fuck our oil-worshipping car industry. It deserves to go extinct for intentionally slow-rolling EV releases to prop up the oil industry. Fuck 'em.
This article reads like a terrible puff piece. Wired has really fallen low with a headline and article like this.
No real info, just statements from highly paid execs.
No way Chinese cars would be sold in U.S. or Japan, no idea about EU though. So no, not remotely a threat.
Seriously, this article is garbage.
Yeah, this is basically the stance auto industry execs had until the Chinese EVs actually arrived, and they did get five star safety ratings, and build quality wasn't crap, and then they've collectively had a Blackberry exec seeing the first iPhone moment.
They're really hoping you don't actually test drive one, though. And they'll spend a lot on disinformation to help make that happen.
They're already selling byd, mg and NIU cars in Europe, and Renault/Dacia is selling a rebranded car previously designed for the Chinese market. Teslas for the European market are made in China
Not sure who's buying a byd Atto for 40k in Europe, but indeed the western brands are sleeping on the wheel doing the bare minimum, leaving a large gap on the market
Only Model 3s for the European market are from China. The vast majority sold are Model Ys, and they are made in Germany.
Not sure who's buying a byd Atto for 40k in Europe
Me neither, but I reckon a lot of people will be interested in a BYD seagull for 8k.
I live in Chile 🇨🇱 (South America 🌎), and i can guarantee you that my country has been flooded by Chinese cars in the last year. (Mostly Changan's, followed by BYD and finally Kia)
Plus, our government has made a deal with BYD so that they'll replace all fuel-based public transportation with EVs. 🔌⚡🚌 (Link [in Spanish] down below)
So yeah, there IS a mayor market for China's cheap vehicles (aka developing countries), and i bet that until most vehicles around the planet are EVs, China will be the mayor seller for a few years.
Koa is owned by Hyundai, a South Korean company. But I see your point in the flood of Asian imports.
Yeah. China can go fuck itself. Not only does the government suck shit, but the culture of the people since the revolution is horrifically selfish and nasty.