this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023

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CD Projekt employees form a union (gamedevunion.pl)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 96 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am so happy for them and proud of them. This is the correct response to unnecessary layoffs or any other worker abuse. I hope more people in the industry will follow their example!

[+] DocBlaze -26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago (3 children)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

While you fought for workers rights, I studied the blade.

While you were attending strikes against America's true citizens, I mastered the block chain.

While you wrote to your government, I cultivated inner wealth

Now that the world is on fire and we're at fault for it, you have the audacity to come to me for a living wage?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

EPIC is laying off 900 people so Tim Sweeney can follow his stupid dream of a Meataverse. He even said this in his "apology letter" where he writes, that he spends too much on metaverse, so he has to lay off people, but then he ends with the promise to continue to overspend on the same thing going forward.

He lays off 900 people, 1/3 of them even core people making his game(s).

It is stupid decisions like this that make the layoffs "necessary", not anything actually related to the development of games, when it comes to these big developers/publishers.

Don't let them fool you that this could not have been prevented.

https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/news/layoffs-at-epic

For a while now, we've been spending way more money than we earn, investing in the next evolution of Epic and growing Fortnite as a metaverse-inspired ecosystem for creators. I had long been optimistic that we could power through this transition without layoffs, but in retrospect I see that this was unrealistic.

and

About two-thirds of the layoffs were in teams outside of core development. Some of our products and initiatives will land on schedule, and some may not ship when planned because they are under-resourced for the time being. We’re ok with the schedule tradeoff if it means holding on to our ability to achieve our goals, get to the other side of profitability and become a leading metaverse company.

He is totally fine with crunch because he on purpose understaffed his core development teams, he is happy for an upcoming community event while having laid off all the staff for that and will continue to make the same mistake again, while laying off 900 people at a time where getting a new job is hard and where many of them rely on finding a new job or losing their working visas.

Fuck him! Do not defend him!

[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well that's nice. Games industry is not known for treating it's employees fairly. Or even humanely. I don't know what the situation is in Poland, but I hope this is a positive development for them.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Reports of months of crunch before Cyberpunk's release make the image pretty clear. There's bunch of small indies and some midsized contractor companies in Poland, but not many on AAA level. Techland, CDP and People Can Fly (I think they are independent from Epic again?) are the only ones I can think of. Oh 11bit maybe.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (1 children)

good news for developers means good news for players too so: good news all round

[+] [email protected] -16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

I'm all for unions. But I'm not sure how it translates to good for players. Unions exist for fair wages and working environment, not direction of how games should be made.

Edit: People sure seem to get the wrong impression with my question. As I said in the very first line, I am for unions. They're great and we should strive for fair working wages and hours, especially in 2023 where wages are stagnating while having massive inflation. We should have happy employees and I prefer my games made by happy employees. Failure to keep the wages up is creating shit ton of societal problems.

Issue is the delusion people are presenting here. Unions are not magic. It doesn't automatically improve unrelated things. What people are missing is that there is no evidence the union has ever advocated for a better product. If one exists, despite my desperate attempt to find one, then it's clearly a fringe case. All the replies are making a huge logical leap of simply saying happy worker produces better product with no reasoning behind it. Unions never argue for better product. That's just not what unions do. It argues for the betterment of workers.

Unionizing increases productivity for some sectors. But they're usually rare and only seen in specific industries. They generally have no significant impact on productivity based on research. If it straight up increased productivity and made better products, every company would love it. The argument is counter-logical. Companies do what is efficient. Even if we assumed individual productivity is increased, there's still no evidence that these individuals would have the capacity to change the direction in which the product is being made in the upper tier.

We need unions. But unions aren't magic.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Seems like people who are being fairly compensated in a comfortable work environment will make a better game than people being underpaid and overworked?

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't think that's necessarily true. The reason wages are low is because the games industry attracts a lot of talent, so companies can get good talent for less. So I don't expect unionizing to help in terms of quality of work produced, but it should improve wages and working conditions.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Quality of a product is not just a result of quality of talent (see: "I hate sand."). Management, direction, and quality of life of the talent has a profound impact. If you want the highest quality product, especially in an industry that requires collaboration, you want your talent to be happy.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe, but I feel like any quality gains would be minimal since people are already passionate about their roles (else why would those roles be so desired?). Then again, the Valve model really works, so it really depends on whether unions can change company culture, or if they'll just secure better working hours and pay. The culture is the problem, and I'm not convinced a union can fix that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Here's an example for you: https://www.ign.com/articles/new-report-makes-disturbing-allegations-against-the-lord-of-the-rings-gollum-developer

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Huh, well fear is a very different thing than stress. Once your stress turns into fear, you're no longer personally invested in the project and are merely concerned about your own survival.

The video games industry definitely comes with a lot of stress, but they rely on passion to get value out of those long hours. This sounds like a situation of completely awful management, which won't be fixed with a union (at least not immediately), since a bad manager can make life suck even if you have decent benefits, reasonable work hours, etc.

Then again, I don't have a lot of details to go on, just that there's allegations of "fear" at Daedelic.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The video games industry definitely comes with a lot of stress, but they rely on passion to get value out of those long hours.

That's called exploitation, plain and simple. It's predatory behavior. They are knowingly under-compensating and over-working people, knowing that they can get away with it because of this passion. Say the same about just about any other industry and it's clear how unacceptable it is. Beyond that, stress, objectively, causes unnecessary illness and death, as proven in decades worth of scientific studies.

This sounds like a situation of completely awful management, which won't be fixed with a union (at least not immediately), since a bad manager can make life suck even if you have decent benefits, reasonable work hours, etc.

Bad management is literally one of the foundational reasons that unions exist in the first place. Management and capital have a significant power imbalance with workers and have, historically and currently, attempted to establish workplace environments and situations that are more exploitative. Collective bargaining is necessary to even the odds and allow for workers to air grievances and get them resolved, without punitive action.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's called exploitation

I never said it wasn't. My point was just that unionizing isn't necessarily going to improve the end product. It would most likely improve working conditions and employee happiness, but that doesn't necessarily translate into better games. In fact, it could do the opposite since it would be harder to get rid of poor performers.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

With or without a union, improving wages and working conditions will improve productivity and the quality of the products being produced. This is an almost universal truth in research on the topic.

[–] chuckleslord 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Less crunch, more realistic deadlines, less unnecessary scope. Makes better games

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Realistically this just means games get released with less or unfinished features/content.

[–] chuckleslord 4 points 1 year ago

No, it doesn't. Pushing people to burn out doesn't make more or better products, it just burns people out. People are more productive when they have work life balance

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

As someone in the industry I feel the opposite. A lot of features that are almost finished but cut despite being integral to the experience come from higher up pressure. The expectation to always overwork leaves no room to commit a little bit extra when it's necessary because you're always drained to begin with. There is also no room for creativity, playing around, or polish, because the deadlines are based on the bare minimum that will sell.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Based on what evidence?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

They have the ability to raise the standards of quality of the finished product.

[–] KillAllPoorPeople 5 points 1 year ago

not direction of how games should be made

Of course unions can and do have more power in the direction of the game. Employees can also voice concerns to managers and owners without the fear of a bullshit termination. They're pretty awesome for everyone.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I love how this thread grouping is essentially argueing that the ends justify the means. Yeah, lets give a pass to companies in the name of capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I do not think end justifies the means. And companies should not be given a pass in the name of capitalism. Where are people coming up with this?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

"How can I make this about me?"

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Somehow they think less work means more game. I dunno, we're way too deep into a circle jerk to hear any other opinions. Good for you to actually speak the obvious. Unions actually cure cancer too.

[–] GaimDS 48 points 1 year ago

Finally, some gaming news that are not about layoffs💪

[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago

Not just at CD Projekt. This is a trade union!

[–] bappity 32 points 1 year ago

good for them!! glad to see more and more places forming unions these days

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

Omg that's so important.

[–] AdrianTheFrog 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's great, I hear CD Projekt has some real problems with overworking their employees.

Edit: (right before cyberpunk released)

Employees at CD Projekt Red, the Polish studio behind the game, have reportedly been required to work long hours, including six-day weeks, for more than a year.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

They could sense the layoffs coming