Hasn't the travel, cruise and holiday industry been doing this for decades now?
this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2023
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Most companies that sell products do this in some form. The only thing that's secret about it is the particular process and code, since that's confidential company info.
A few years ago I remember speaking with a Walmart GM about this sort of thing, and they mentioned how their site in their region would receive price updates after their volume, revenue, staffing, supply chain logistics to their site, etc., were analyzed. Admittedly, I don't know if they had real analysts or machine learning, or a mix of the two (likely both, since it was 5 or 6 years ago).
A key point to this is that most businesses selling things buy most of their products from suppliers, who have their own pricing mechanisms - which causes downstream businesses to adjust accordingly.
We'll see it down to the minute in B&M storefronts soon as well. The local Superstore and Walmart already have digital price tags on shelves. Milk could go up $0.50/L between the time you grab it off the shelf and then finish shopping to hit the checkout.
A bunch of people buying cookies? Oh, better raise that price by $1.50/box
That sounds extremely problematic for consumers when the price can be change so easily. I would be hesitant to buy anything from there knowing that I may spend a lot more money from picking the item of the shelf and the cash register.
Yeah it's one of those things that needs to be stopped - preferably by legislation - yesterday. And you won't have any choice not to shop they're because everyone is starting to do it
I have a feeling that wouldn't be legal.
When I had to change price tickets, from memory, the lower prices went into effect that morning, but any price increases wouldn't go into effect until the next day?
The customer always receives the lower price, and I didn't get screamed at when I hopped back on the cash register.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's no specific law for that, and that most stores did price updates in early/after hours to avoid foot traffic while open. Some place I know generally did it while stocking
I'm pretty sure I've actually seen those tickets flashing while I was shopping.
It's generally not illegal to raise your prices or set your prices at what your competitors are charging. There are variety of factors that influence a price of an item.
The issue is that the FTC is alleging that the algorithm artificially boosted prices and keeping the prices that high when competitors matched the price.
While it's not outright collusion on price fixing, it does reek of using monopolistic practices to fatten the bottom line.
I really can't believe its legal to charge more or less based on a customers location, or probably other data about us. This seems like such a fucking problem.
Really, it's super legal. If you buy a textbook in America or you buy the same textbook in India, the price difference can be 90%, and I recall the publishers legally going after people for having the gall of buying the cheaper textbooks.
And yet, no one says anything when landlords use the same basic tools to price fix rents.
I am also certain that any retailers competing with Amazon -- at least those of sufficient size -- have their own data scientists banging away on optimizing pricing too.
According to the Journal, Nessie would inflate prices and monitor whether other retailers, like Target, would follow suit. If the competing retailers maintained the lower price, the algorithm would automatically revert Amazon’s to its normal price.
Isn’t this how retail pricing always works?
That basically sounds like automated price fixing
Price fixing is when sellers conspire to increase prices beyond what normal competition would support. The fact that the algorithm reduces the price below competitors’ when it detects they are not following a corresponding increase means it’s not price fixing.
what normal competition would support.
Maybe it's the overall price of something else that's not shown
Tech Giants Settle Wage-Fixing Lawsuit
That did happen.
What's perceived as competitors can be allies to accomplish common goals. Though they settled the lawsuit, it's not like this got put out of practice. They refined it
emails from top executives including the late Mr. Jobs, Google co-founder Sergey Brin and then-CEO Eric Schmidt surfaced, showing the executives conferred on hiring plans
This is the defining characteristic of price / wage fixing - out-of-band collusion of price setters to discourage competition. There isn’t even an allegation that this is happening here.
That's why it's so brilliant. If you can develop an in-band system to coordinate arbitrary price increases between firms then you have plausible deniability. Who needs price fixing if you can just temporarily increase price, see who's price matching algorithms follows, and act accordingly using an algorithm that acts so fast that consumers are none the wiser when the "negotiation" to increase price fails.
The fact that the impetus for the price increase is nothing more than to test if other firms will raise their prices to match an increase and has nothing to do with supply or demand of the product makes it transparent that this strategy achieves the effect of price fixing without the smoking gun of explicit negotiation and plausible deniability that they are simply engaging in "price leadership".
What happens when another retailer runs the same algorith? One tests the waters with a price hike, the other sees it and matches. The first detects the corresponding increase and maintains the increased price. Rise repeat.
I'm other words, this could be price fixing because making a temporary increase and seeing if competitors will match the increase is sending a signal to competitors that Amazon is willing to increase price if others match. The fact that they revert to a lower price doesn't absolve them from price fixing, it just means the negotiation to collude failed.
The fact that the only factor in play is whether the competitors also increase price makes it blatantly obvious that the increase has nothing to do with supply and demand.
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Only issue is the automated fashion in which it’s done. It means they can easily push prices up and up and up to extract every last penny they can from buyers.
Greed is no longer something that you have to work at, if you have a desire to fuck people over you’re just a button away from doing it.
At the scale of Amazon, it's much less reasonable.
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Meanwhile secret algorithm: price *= 1.1
Scamazon
How would this be enforced? Also, can we rely on the FTC to do their job quickly and effectively when we’re just now hearing about something that’s reported to have ended four years ago?
Secret or standard?
Is it the scale of sales that matters? Like if I make an Etsy shop and set my prices based on competitors, is that illegal?
No, you're doing capitalism just like Amazon and everyone else. And if you don't want to do it personally feel free to write a script to do it just like Amazon
Is this really a surprise?
I'm shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED!
Ive bought through amazon three times in my life. Each time i regretted my purchase because the absolute lowest quality shit arrived. Why the fuck would anyone buy anything from there?
Because you bought from shit sellers, amazon is just the marketplace
For me, it's simply that there's stuff I can't find without driving 4h to another city, and even then only maybe.
Another city hasn't discovered post services yet?
Right? People will very readily make up fictional scenarios in their defence of amazon. It is trully bizarre how effective they have been at convincing some people in believing that they are the only internet retailers in existence.
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Because you have like 3 weeks to decide you want to keep that purchase or not for a full refund
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If the items were shit, why didn’t you return them?
Because it's convenient when I often can't get out, it has a good return policy, and your experience is radically different from my own. Mainly that last bit.
It used to be decent, but in recent years it's basically become wish.com with better logistics.
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