this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
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We are not sustainable And neither is any other device maker. This industry is full of "feel good" messaging, but generates 50 million metric tons of e-waste each year. We believe the best way to reduce environmental impact is to create products that last longer, meaning fewer new ones need to be made. Instead of operating on feels, we operate on data and actions. With funding from Intel, we commissioned Fraunhofer IZM to do a detailed life cycle analysis (LCA) on Framework Laptop 13 to help us understand where we are today and where we can continue to improve. Check out our thoughts on reducing environmental impact and download the LCA report here...

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[–] [email protected] 176 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Overall, they seem to be doing the right things for long-term ownership and repairability. As new hardware manufacturers, they're going to have a couple issues, just like their rechargeable bios battery design, but they've handled them well.

I would like them to open source their schematics, but they have contractual obligations preventing them from doing so, so making the schematics open after signing an NDA is a fair middle ground, and more than any other company will do. So kudos for that

I personally own a framework, and worked with them to fix a charging issue, and they did all the right things, professional, no issues at all.

One small issue that people seem to have, is their unwillingness to talk about core boot or libre boot, but that's a small thing.

They are a startup, so you always have to question what revenue streams they're envisioning long-term.

They're my kind of crazy: I hope they succeed, at least I hope they start industry trend for repairability and long-term ownership.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It would be amazing if they succeeded. Would be nice to be able to grab the motherboard of your old laptop and recycle it into a home server type device, sell your display to someone that can easily use it for personal projects, etc.

If they do it right their old boards could be used for the kind of stuff people buy raspberry pi's for as well.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That is already being done right now.

You can fashion your old Mainboard into a home server. For example by using their case made in collaboration with I think CooperMaster but you can also 3D print it yourself.

The displays are just standard eDP connectors. So anyone could use that as well with a cheap board.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, I saw hobbyists are doing it already, but it you could use mass produced cases to fit them in any form factor it opens up the possibility for long term use of motherboards that would end up scrapped otherwise.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

100% agreed. If they could come up with some GPL3 framework foundation, that open source to schematic designs, after I don't know 5 years. So the designs are older, but it's open, so that people can fashion all of their devices into completely reusable modules. I'd love that.

They're doing a reasonable job by open sourcing their interfaces, which is good.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One small issue that people seem to have, is their unwillingness to talk about core boot or libre boot, but that's a small thing.

It's a major issue for me - currently I'm keeping my old x230 alive, but eventually that'll have to be replaced.

I'm running it with heads, which allows me to do secure boot under my control. I don't really want to have my main notebook without that nowadays.

I don't like any of the current notebook keyboards, so it'll be a "build yourself" project anyway - and the framework mainboard would be nice as they keep the dimensions stable, even though I'm not a fan of some other hardware choices.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My impression of the GitHub discussion on core boot, was that it's on their backlog. But one of the bug submitters was very vocal, would a commitments, and basically got the developers to close the issue kind of emotionally.

I think it's something they want to do, long-term, but they're not actively working on it.

Out of curiosity what are the other hardware issues?

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[–] captainlezbian 116 points 1 year ago (3 children)

They seem to be heavily prioritizing reduce and reuse over recycle which is perfect. That’s what you’re supposed to do. Buy a few refillable glass jars and recycle them when they break instead of just tossing them in the recycling and buying new ones type deal.

[–] kameecoding 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I needed new laptop and wanted one from Framework but unfortunately they don't sell it in my country so I went with a macbook pro with the thinking that it will last me longer than anything else and that's at least somewhat more eco friendly since I don't need to buy a new one for the next 5 years at least, probably 10 since it's a mac

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[–] [email protected] 105 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I say we celebrate their successes! Don't let perfection be the enemy of progress; the fact that they're trying to do something about sustainability is far more than can be said for most laptop manufacturers, and the more the industry sees them succeed, the more it will follow suite.

[–] shami 17 points 1 year ago

They've even went beyond what they promised iirc rather than delivering the bare minimum

[–] synapse1278 74 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I bought a 1st gen Framework, making the bet they will still be around and have sell upgrades for my laptop 5+years from now when I need an upgrade. So far they are delivering on their promises and the price remains acceptable (even if high than the competition).

  • very satisfied about linux support
  • very satisfied about reperability, customizability
  • very satisfied with overall spec. and design
  • not so satisfied by battery management and autonomy
[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

even if high than the competition

it's not even higher in some cases.

Was looking for a new work laptop a year or so ago, and compared a thinkpad with framework. Same exact hardware inside, and the price difference was 50ct. With the thinnkpad having poorer upgradability, soldered on ram and (imo) worse build quality.

It was the perfect way to test out a framework, and now I own one for personal use as well

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)
  • not so satisfied by battery management and autonomy

What do you mean with autonomy?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Probably not native. In Italian we also say "autonomia" to indicate battery life or distance you can still cover with the fuel in your tank.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Ah that makes sense, thanks

[–] synapse1278 8 points 1 year ago

Yes this is what I mean. I though this was also use in english. Basically, how long you last with 1 charge.

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[–] thekerker 52 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I got my Framework 13 in February 2022 and I love it. I'll end up getting the AMD mainboard when it becomes more widely available, then take my old mainboard and RAM, put them in an enclosure, and make that my new NAS. Then my current NAS, which is just a Raspberry Pi, I'll turn that into a PiHole.

[–] synapse1278 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I am super excited about case options (3D printed, or coolermaster) ! When I do need an upgrade in some years time, the old MB will definitly not go to wast !

I always found it very frustration to have some old laptop laying around, that still functions good, but there is nothing much to be done with it, or it involves a lot of tinkering and will never end up being a very elegant nor practical thing...

[–] cybersandwich 10 points 1 year ago

I've used old laptops as low power servers (hell, they have included battery backup that lasts way longer than my UPSes). Being able to put an old board and its components in a 1u rack server or 3d printed case is HUGE to me. Thats a huge selling point for framework for me.

I wish they did a System76 collab or something because I want to support both of those companies.

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I am not in the market for a new laptop at the moment, but my next one is very likely to be a Framework. At least if they decide to add Nordic keyboard and support shipping to Denmark.

[–] captainlezbian 12 points 1 year ago

Yeah that’s my attitude as well. I have no need for a laptop at the moment. It’s a want, but I have bigger expenses to worry about at the moment. In a year or two when I feel like it’s time I’ll likely go with them.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

If I need a new laptop, I'll most likely get a Framework. Not only the ~upgradability~ repairability, but the upgradability is second to none.

The one complaint I have is that the Ethernet module sticks out of the device. Seems like an oversight to make them so thin so they can't fit an RJ-45 port. Maybe they'll develop a module with a little flap like seen on some thin laptops with an RJ-45 port.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I purchased a 1st gen Framework in early 2022 because I strongly believe in the ethos of the company and even though I didn't really need a laptop, I wanted to support the company.

Overall I'm quite happy with the laptop, there are definitely a few things that weren't great on the 1st gen units, such as the speakers, hinges, and the battery life. Some of those I have since upgraded as they improved them in later years, and it now meets my needs pretty well.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Framework: We design our products to last, to reduce e-waste

Enthusiasts: buys their products even though they don't need new ones, just because they're cool, producing more e-waste in the process

/s

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago

This should be the mandatory way for all computing. Hell, all products

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think they're the go-to company if you want to get a laptop in 2023. I got my unit back in 2021 and used it every day since, and it has taken quite a beating. It went though several light impacts and one big drop but the only thing to show for it is a small dent on the back.

My only two complaints are

  • After a year, the USB-C cable supplied with the laptop started to split open. I don't know if this is only a defect in early batches but it's worth noting.
  • Suspend on Linux is an issue. Linux works great but it doesn't suspend properly. Putting in this command as root echo "deep" > /sys/power/mem_sleep which makes your system use deep sleep instead of s2idle which solved the issue but waking up from suspend is now 8-10 seconds instead of 2 seconds.

I expect these hardware issues and more to be fixed on newer boards and the framework 16 but I'll continue to use my 13 and upgrade to an AMD board and use my intel board to make a mini PC. There's really no reason to buy Dell, HP, or Lenovo anymore now that framework exist and has delivered on all their promises.

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[–] pachrist 22 points 1 year ago

I got one of the first gen models, and I have been totally sold ever since. Yeah, there are laptops with more ports, but it's harder to find a laptop with a wider variety of ports.

I love that the laptop is customizable and totally serviceable. As someone who has been dismantling and fixing their own laptops for a long time, watching the industry get more and more unfriendly has been disheartening.

Framework is a breath of fresh air. Even if they fail eventually, I will still be happy to have given them my money because this is an incredible laptop. Excited to see the 16.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

I think they need to hurry and offer it in more countries. Been seeing the "we don't sell in your country" message for too long now.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm going to get one for my next laptop.

[–] turmacar 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is the only reason I haven't bought one yet. I have no use/need for a new laptop, but really like the idea at the very least over... every other manufacturer really.

Being able to choose/swap out ports alone would be fantastic.

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[–] sturmblast 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I've tested out a couple different framework laptops and they are hands down one of the best manufacturers on the market these days

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

From linux perspective which is better, Framework or System76?

I have been looking to upgrade my laptop (i5-8250U) with something decent. I don't game, so dont require heavy graphics that draws too much power.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

System76 is a bit strange. Their laptops are more expensive than other windows brands, while offering Linux. I'm not sure if it's really worth going with them, as a lot of other laptops ca work with Linux. Tho maybe I missed something about their laptops.

Framework I think I saw some Poole saying it has some issues running Linux with some component incompatibilities. Tho you may want to do more research, maybe even opening some reddit threads and dodging useless comments.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

These laptops look extremely affordable and I like how modular they are. The next time I need to replace my laptop I'll probably go with Framework.

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[–] cthellis 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I like the aim and ethos, but not so much the design (other than interesting modularity) and certain things rub me the wrong way. And the pricing is just very out of line.

In the end, I'll just continue to do what I have been and keep old laptops running as long as possible. Have been using old IT-recycled housings or eBay purchases of "just the right thing" and swapped parts around, rebuilt the OS, etc. That's where much of the fun is anyway, heh.

I do wish the Fairphone were easier to come by in the US, tho.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

if i need a new laptop i'd save for a framework laptop

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

I like Framework and pre-ordered a F16 as soon as I heard pre-orders were open.

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