this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
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What are cis and trans alternate types of? I don't think it's "gender identity" because wouldn't that just be man, woman or nonbinary regardless of whether they're cis or trans? Cis/trans just being a qualifier?

If the answer is "I am cis" or "I am trans", what is the question?

Edit: Someone came up with the term "gender congruity" and (after looking up the definition of "congruity") I think this describes what I'm talking about perfectly.

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[–] fubo 165 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (13 children)

To a first approximation, they describe the match or mismatch between a person's gender identity and their assigned gender at birth (AGAB).

"Cis" = "my gender identity matches my assigned gender at birth"
"Trans" = "my gender identity does not match my assigned gender at birth"

The question being asked is, "Given that when you were born they thought of you as a (boy/girl); are you now expressing or experiencing a (male/female) gender, or a (female/male) one?"

Logically speaking, this is an xor operation; it asks if two things are the same or different. If boolean variable a represents your AGAB and boolean variable b represents your gender identity, then "are you trans?" is a xor b — is your AGAB different from your gender identity?

Again, this is to a first approximation. There are people who don't fit binary labels, and so an xor operation on binary labels doesn't fit them either.

[–] mcherm 20 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I like the way you express this. "Cis / Trans" isn't about your gender, it's about whether your gender has CHANGED. (Although it may not be your GENDER that changed, but what people THOUGHT your gender was.)

In a similar way, I (a cis male) usually call myself "straight", but that's not really accurate. I don't feel like I'm attracted to whatever gender is different from mine (which happens to be women); I feel like I am attracted to women (which happens to be the gender that's different from mine).

Putting it differently, if some magical spell were to transform me into a woman, I don't imagine that I would then be attracted to men, I imagine that I would be attracted to women. So instead of calling myself "straight", I should probably be saying that I am "gynosexual" (attracted to women).

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[–] nomadjoanne 7 points 2 years ago

Hahaha. A nice and appropriately nerdy explanation. Very nice.

[–] ulu_mulu 6 points 2 years ago

Finally a "down to earth" explanation I can fully understand, thank you!

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think the confusion is coming from the fact that cis and trans really only have context of an expectation. In this case, it would be the expectation of society.

You are correct that if you identify as a woman or a man, you are a woman or man. If you have a penis, or a vagina, or some mix or lack of those, then those are just parts of your body and that isn't really up to interpretation.

In broad strokes, society expects your body parts (penis, vagina) to correspond to how you identify (man, woman). Humans are kind of just built this way. Our brains take a lot of shortcuts and categorize the world around us. It is statistically likely that if you have a penis, you identify as a man.

As we've evolved as a society, we have come to understand and recognize that these statistically likely correlations not always hold up (it's just likely, not a guarantee, after all). So cis and trans are descriptors of whether or not the correlation between your gender identity and your physical characteristics match (cis) or don't match (trans) society's expectations.

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[–] MrShelbySan 35 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Please note I’m typing this as a trans man. Being “cis” or “trans” stems from someone’s gender.

Basically, do you identify as your birth gender (not sex, gender and sex are different)? If the answer is yes, you are “cis”. If the answer is no, like I my case, I was born female, I identify as a male, then you are are trans.

I hope this answers your question.

[–] Hypersapien 7 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I understand what they are, I'm asking if there is a name for the category of characteristic that they both belong to.

I'm not entirely sure there is a word for it. If not, maybe there should be.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I understand what they are, I'm asking if there is a name for the category of characteristic that they both belong to.

You're not getting an answer to your question because the question, as stated, is incomprehensible. You're asking for a "category of characteristic" that a pair of antonym adjectives "belong to"? That doesn't make sense. They apply to a whole host of characteristics, because they're not describing a specific characteristic, but how a characteristic relates to the whole. Just like "homo" and "hetero"; homozygous, heterogenous, homocystine, and heterophony are all words that use the "homo" or "hetero" prefix to describe how those words relate to other concepts in their category. It's the same with "cis" and "trans". The prefixes don't "belong" to a category of characteristics, they explicitly exist outside of the characteristics of the words their modifying.

That's the best I can do with the way you've chosen to phrase your question, and I admit it's a reach, but your question is gibberish.

[–] Hypersapien 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (10 children)

Male, female or nonbinary are a person's gender.
White, black, asian (nonexclusively) are a person's race.
Right, left are a person's handedness.
Gay, straight, bi are a person's sexual orientation.
Cis, trans are a person's ________.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 years ago

"Relationships between gender identity and birth sex."

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[–] GaryPonderosa 5 points 2 years ago (21 children)

Shouldn't it be that you identify with your birth sex? If gender is a social construct you don't have a gender at birth. When the doctor says "It's a boy" they're referring to the genitalia you have, not assigning you a social position.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 years ago (17 children)

You might not believe in the social construct at birth, but the social construct believes in you. Children are treated differently based on assigned gender from birth.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago (17 children)

No, gender is a social construct and the doctor is assigning a gender to you when you are born based on what he sees as your genital configuration. This is then used to determine nearly everything about you through the social framework of gender.

What colors you're allowed to like, what games you can play, what names you can have, what words are acceptable to refer to you with, who you're allowed to be friends with, what foods your supposed to like, what clothes you're allowed to wear, how people should speak to you, how people should praise you, how people should scold you, whether or not misogyny should be applied to you, and so on and so forth.

Those things are determined based on the gender you are assigned at birth. Those things are enforced across all society at all social levels and in all settings. Parents are the first people to enforce gender onto their children, intentionally or not. Then every single other adult and child they meet or interact with throughout their childhood will continue to enforce gender upon them until they themselves become adults and repeat the cycle with their own kids. Media perpetuates gender, government laws enforce gender, education systems are filled with people who systematically enforce gender upon children.

Thats what we mean when we say gender is a social construct. And you're assigned one at birth.

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[–] FinnFooted 33 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Cis and trans are terms that came before their application to gender identity. I learned themin organic chemistry in reference to chemical isomers.

Wikipedia: The prefixes "cis" and "trans" are from Latin: "this side of" and "the other side of", respectively.

As applied to gender, "this side of" you are the gender of the sex you were born as. "The other side of" means you have switched your gender to the other side of the sex from which you were born.

Edit: to answer your question more directly, your gender is cis or trans of the sex you were born as. The question you ask for is: "is your gender cis or trans of your sex?"

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago

This is the correct answer to the question that was asked by OP.

Well said.

[–] RBWells 29 points 2 years ago

I think it's an alignment, like parallel vs. perpendicular.

If you identify with your sex at birth, whatever it is, your identity is aligned with your biological sex at birth, that is called Cisgender. Parallel.

If your gender identity is not aligned with your biological sex at birth, it is at an angle to it, perhaps perpendicular (you were a boy baby but are a woman) perhaps a different angle (perhaps were born a girl and are non-binary). Anything other than that parallel alignment is thrown into the Trans bucket, but particularly the perpendicular arrangements.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago (2 children)

gender chirality . gender isomerism. gender topology

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

My topology is a tube with appendages. Ultimately, humans (like all chordates) are convoluted toroids.

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[–] positiveWHAT 6 points 2 years ago

Gender congruence.

[–] AlmightySnoo 12 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I don't think any of you read his question.

[–] Hypersapien 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)

It's possible I didn't make it clear enough what I was asking.

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[–] TitanLaGrange 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

You can think of 'cis' and 'trans' as meaning roughly 'this side' and 'other side'.

In a gender context the 'sides' are male and female and the items are physical gender and mental gender. If both genders are on the same side, both on 'this side', that's 'cis'. If they are different, one 'this side', one 'other side', that's 'trans'.

So, if the answer is "I am cis/trans" the question is "Is your mental gender the same as your physical gender?" "I am cis" then means "My mental gender is the same as my physical gender" and "I am trans" means "My mental gender is not the same as (or maybe 'is opposite') my physical gender".

Note that 'physical gender' is not always clear. Some people are born with ambiguous genitalia and may be surgically altered to make their genitalia more closely resemble the commonly recognized pattern for 'male' or 'female', and some may be left as-is. In some cases this can be a reason for a trans gender identity.

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[–] michikade 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Cisgender means the person has a gender identity that matches the sex they were assigned at birth.

If you are a man and you were assigned male at birth, you are cis.

If you are a man and you were assigned female at birth, you are trans.

Non-binary can mean anything from not having a strong specifically male or female identity to closer to switching identities (bi-gender falls closer into this) to just having a lot of serious fluidity, but typically speaking at least part of the time the identity doesn’t match the assigned sex at birth.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago (5 children)

They're adjectives. Just like "tall" or "smart" or "young".

The question would just be "are you cis or trans?", there's not a specific word or term that you'd use.

[–] Hypersapien 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Tall or short would be a person's height.
Smart or dumb would be a person's intelligence.
Young or old would be a person's age.

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[–] BendyLemmy 5 points 2 years ago (5 children)

CIS is simply opposite of TRANS - they simply describe someone's identity in terms of their physiology.

Confusion rises, somewhat, when you factor in masculinity/femininity to the equation - but basically 'trans' means that having a dick doesn't mean you're a man... 'cis' means that being a man means you have a penis.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago

I think I've seen "gender modality" used before.

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