i will never understand why people would be dumb enough to play in online casinos, or any other form of digitalized gambling. this includes slots.
this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2023
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Nonono, you don’t understand, dude. See, there’s these hats, right? But sometimes, the hat has this super rare effect, see? And, if I spend $2.50 per crate key, I can sell that unusual hat for more than I spent on the key, making profit. OR — hear me out — or: I could spend the unusual i unbox on MORE crates and keys, and get more unusuals.
That’s not digital gambling, right? Right.
i know that this is talking about tf2, and yes this is gambling you have a problem
What about when there was that bug in 2019 that made it so you could only get unusuals?
I made hundreds that morning from selling all of my old crates. It was amazing.
Quick edit: oh dick, that was four years ago already?!
Hey, I sold all my hats for a Valve Index.
But I DID also have a shady key guy I paid through PayPal who gave me keys for 1.20USD, so I was very lucky.
I hate gambling, but I LOVED pixely hats. I’ve been to a casino only a few times in my life and it was almost always super boring. But the rush when there was a full server ceasefire so everyone could come stare at the firey hat I had just opened…
I understand why people do emotionally, but working in tech I just know there's no such thing as "online gambling". Even random number generators can't be 100% random. This takes that and adds on businesses that want to be profitable and minimal oversite.
I don't know how people can believe it's fair and not rigged. You're telling me out of all of those millions of lines of code, nothing in there skews a bit to the house to screw you over? Nah, they'll keep your money. Any wins you may have are because they let you have them.
It's all rigged, technically. If you go to a real life casino, slots are certified to pay out some percentage of plays. It's like, 8%.
If you play craps, roulette - the house always has the edge because there's more results favorable to them.
The only "casino" game where the house doesn't have an edge is poker because that's player against player. The house doesn't really have a stake in any outcome, they're just being paid to host the game.
Besides your examples there are only a handful of games where the player has so much as an even chance against the casino and even then it requires doing extra skill based efforts. One example is card counting in blackjack, using basic strategy you can lower the house edge to something like 1% or even a little lower depending on the rules of the table. Counting is the only way to push the edge in the players favor in blackjack. Even then, its taking what is around a 48% chance for favorable player outcomes and barely nudging it to a 50-51% chance for the player. Roulette has some of the best odds, something like a 7-8% chance to land on any one number and with hedge bets those odds go up without any input from either side but even then the house edge in that is still ludicrously high by comparison to blackjack, baccarat or poker.
Physical slots "feel" less likely to be rigged than digital slots but as another commenter said it depends on the jurisdiction one finds themselves in as to whether that is true or not. The state would like their cut too so most regulators want to keep the games fair as fair games draw players in. Rigged games eventually lose casinos business cause word spreads among the players. Overall digital slots just feel less trustworthy and most likely are less trustworthy.
There's also blackjack, but you have to start with a large sum, and count cards. Technically there's nothing wrong with that, but you'll get kicked out.
Edit: woops. Yeah the other guy already made my point.
No! Only we can rig games in our favor! Get out! -casinos
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Oh agreed, it's just to me there isn't even the illusion of chance now. That "deck of cards" could have all the face cards "missing" out of it and no one would know. The slots could literally be programmed to pay out only if you seem like you're getting bored. it's just too easy
It depends on your definition of rigged. There are many "provably fair" online casinos where they use hashes and user generated seeds that influence the outcome such that it makes it 100% verifiably fair but you will still lose over time because the house edge. If you call the house edge "rigged" then offline gambling is equally rigged
Offline casinos can also make money on drinks/snacks/entrance fee/hotels rooms. Theoretically it would be possible to run an offline casinos with loosing odds. (They don't)
That's impossible for online casinos.
Offline casinos have a much higher margin (called house edge) than online casinos. This is because they need to pay rent, business rates, salaries, security, etc. Online casinos can survive on a skeleton crew with a cloud based turn key solution. Thus their house edge is usually lower. The lower the house edge is, the more players win. The more players win, the more players you have.
The casinos I've been to have had free drinks, snacks, and entry
but working in tech I just know there's no such thing as "online gambling".
I wouldn't call pseudorandomess(if that's what you're implying) as disqualifying something from being gambling - it only needs to be random enough with an even distribution.
If instead you're talking about odds being slightly in favor of the house then... that's literally no different than gambling irl either. At which point, I have to question what you even define as "gambling".
Online casinos are not rigged. But there's a lot of math behind them. And this math tells you exactly how much money the casino will make. There's literally no point rigging anything when you have a super stable source of income.
I well never understand why people would be dumb enough to play in ~~online~~ casinos, or any other form of ~~digitalized~~ gambling.
for fun? It's just gaming for money if you think about it.
No, it's not gaming, it's gambling. Gaming is if you get exactly what was promised for exactly what you payed. Gambling is if you maybe get what was promised while being disguised in gaming mechanics to be more appealing. And yes, loot boxes in games are gambling and should be banned.
OK... but it literally is 'games' that you play for money. The law governing gambling is referred to as Gaming Law - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaming_law
All gambling games also meet the definition for 'games', which is likely why they also use that term.
Game: a form of play or sport, especially a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
Some people enjoy the extra risk/reward added to games and can do it responsibly.
Go witchhunt all the gambling adverts to kids but let me play blackjack sometimes.
The law governing gambling is referred to as Gaming Law
That's by design to make it sound like a good thing. The more accurate "gambling" has gotten deservedly negative connotations and the even more accurate "almost certainly being tricked into throwing your money away based on misleading information from predatory rich people" is a bit of a mouthful.
All gambling games also meet the definition for 'games', which is likely why they also use that term.
The Battle of The Bulge also met the definition for "exercise", doesn't mean people who sold it as a way to get fit wouldn't be fraudsters.
let me play blackjack sometimes
Sure! But that's not what casinos do, that's not how they get their money. They're inherently predatory and fraudulent. "The House Always Wins" because the "games" are rigged.
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yea same here lol
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how is online gambling different than irl gambling?
Digital randomness vs physical randomness for one. Code can be subtly weighted easily in the direction and degree you want without regulation or oversight. Your roulette wheel’s loss of randomness is random itself and tampering is easy to see for regulators who absolutely exist and are inspecting. Even digital slot machines are heavily regulated. Your trust isn’t in the casino, it’s in the state it occurs in. And like yeah something fishy might be happening in a casino in your state. But nobody has stricter statisticians than the Nevada government. Their state’s economy relies on it.
Also physical gambling sells an experience outside the home in a specific atmosphere. Online gambling feels like the equivalent of getting a vodka faucet ran into your house next to the water. Sure you can indulge responsibly in that situation, but it’s not made for that purpose and it’s going to be much easier to find you’ve slipped into a serious addiction that’s harder to avoid.
This guy gets it. Thank you for articulating this point so well.
Fewer pants.
Another big thing is that in the US at least, recovering addicts can go to the casino and tell them to not take their money anymore. These safeguards aren't present in offshore online gambling sites.
carefully walks into discussion
...crypto
runs out of the room
Usually they promise you something like extra money on your first deposit, daily free spins, or something else to get you hooked.
A former coworker claimed to have a scheme on one casino to use those perks for guaranteed free money (of variable amounts per month), buuuut never told me much about it. Given that, it might even have been legit.
Haven't really tried it myself, I have ADHD so I'm afraid of addictive things. I already have alcohol, nicotine and caffeine in my life, I don't want to add gambling.
Good on ya for knowing yourself and avoiding that. Best of luck in dealing with your other addictions.
Casinos have to comply with Know Your Customer laws like banks. This is to stop money laundering.
There are great reasons to dislike casinos, this is not one of them. Also, online casinos are probably shady AF, why are you using one?
I understand this but, since they are storing your money in the first place, they would need to request this information to deposit in order to remain within those laws as well I believe
Also true, however, there are times you cash out more than you deposit (sometimes people win). Edit: there are thresholds of amount of money you need to start moving around before the casino will pester you for more info, because most people don’t need to bother because they don’t meet those thresholds.
I mean, if it's because of legal reasons, wouldn't they request KYC paperwork before depositing the first bet instead of after? You know, since handling dirty money is still a crime even if the money is locked in the casino
Only if the deposit is over the threshold for KYC laws. (If the threshold is $X, and you get $X in chips, you will need KYC stuff collected from you).
Otherwise no:
Patron A goes to the table and receives $50 in chips. No information is exchanged. No chips are cashed out at the cashier because Patron A lost it all at blackjack. No KYC.
Patron B goes to the table and receives $50 in chips. He does well at the tables and makes several good bets that means he's ahead $X dollars. Since he won this in several bets, there is no taxable event, but trying to cash out $X in chips is a currency exchange and means the casino now needs to gather KYC information on him.
Most people (99%) gamble like patron A. Patron B is inconvenienced because of Patron C:
Patron C stuffs $X dollars into a slot machine and cashes out without gambling. Patron C now has $X in slot tickets, which he attempts to exchange at the cashier window. His goal is to claim his $X came from gambling winnings and not wherever it actually came from. The cashier has to collect KYC info on him, and the goal is to make a paper trail so the casino can comply with state/federal law.
Patron C has a lot of other creative things he can try to do to get around these laws (see structuring)
Since most people are going to fall in category A, the casino wants to make the barrier for gambling very very low. They will only ask what is absolutely necessary at the moment. This is why those websites don't ask for scans of your license or blood-type or whatever when you sign up, because they don't need to if they're just taking your $50. I haven't used a gambling website but if they're US based they have to follow US law.
I was gonna ask about "Patron C," as it's a well known secret among the unlicensed weed growers in California that casinos are a reasonably easy and cheap method of cleaning illegally obtained money, such as selling tons of weed that wasn't licensed to grow. It's such a well known "secret" that even us licensed growers know about it.
I HATE KYC LAWS!!! I HATE CONSTANT SURVIELLENCE ON EVERYTHING!!!
Me too, friend. To avoid KYC laws at a casino I recommend not gambling significant amounts of money.
I wish I didn't need a bank account, then I wouldn't have to deal with it at all.
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I swear i had to submit my semen sample at least 6 times before DK let me cash out.
DK just wants to know if you fire in spurts.
Wouldn't you want them to be overly cautious when sending money? It would suck if someone stole your password and drained your balance.
Those are all things you have to do only the first time you want to withdraw. The fact that they only want to know if you're old enough to gamble when you want to stop gambling is more the issue here though
Same as almost every online sign-up.
SiriusXM Joining - easy.
SiriusXM Cancelling - Must call in, will be asked why you're cancelling, will be offered 3 other smaller plans, will be offered to "Suspend" plan that will start up automatically later.
Say you're from California and they must require online cancellation without needing to call in.
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I remember signing up for a food delivery/taxi app during the pandemic. Ended up barely using it and decided to delete my account.
...turns out the only way to do so was through calling customer support and solving the maze that was their autoresponder
Money laundering son.
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