this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
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I've noticed in the Linux community whenever someone asks for a recommendation on a laptop that runs Linux the answer is always "Get a Thinkpad" yet Lenovo doesn't seem to be a big Linux contributor or ally. There's also at least six Linux/FOSS-oriented computer manufacturers now:

So what gives? Why the love for a primarily Windows-oriented laptop when there are better alternatives?

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[–] [email protected] 197 points 1 year ago (6 children)

It comes down to price. You can buy used ThinkPads and replacement parts for them quite cheap a lot of the time.

It's been a while since I've looked at devices from places like System 76 but if I recall correctly they are still over a thousand dollars when a used ThinkPad T440P for example can be found for around two hundred dollars.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 year ago

Framework laptops are interesting and I hope eventually the modularity allows the components to go down in price. Right now I was looking at a 16 (which all sold out within 3 hours of pre-order launch) but it comes out to easily over 3k CAD for a disassembled kit, skimping on RAM and an SSD.

[–] AlmightySnoo 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

yoo I didn't know about used/refurbished Thinkpads being that cheap, I just checked and indeed you can find a T480 with 16GB of RAM for $248 on Amazon!

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[–] [email protected] 105 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Those linux laptops are too expensive and they are not available in some countries

Used thinkpad is much cheaper

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[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Because of better accessibility. How so?

Because not everyone has the money to afford these new and expensive laptops designed for a niche market. They are still enthusiast-grade products, the prices speak for themselves.

Because not everyone comes from Europe / the US, so it's not easy to find these with affordable shipping.

Because these laptops are only normally offered new, which, for responsible and personal ownership, is excessive. There are thousands of used hardware lying around, why not put some life back into them instead?

It comes down to price, availability and ethical concerns. Unless money doesn't mean anything to you, why do you need a $1000 laptop when someone wants a device for higher education or personal casual use? The world doesn't need more rampant marketing of niche, hyped-up tech. While a fully-FOSS system may be the ideal machine for every Linux enthusiast, we live in a material world with finite resources and chasing after some unicorn laptop is unsustainable.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Because not one of those laptops have a TrackPoint style mouse.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You mean the nipple mouse?

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Cause thinkpads are cheap and easy to come by

Source: i work in ewaste

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[–] art 44 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

In the US a lot of business use them. It's not uncommon to see a pallet of "old" ThinkPads at the swapmeet selling for less than $200. We're talking x1 Carbons. These machines have upgradable SSDs, Wifi, and battery. For less than $300 you can get a BEAST of a machine that runs Linux very very well.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Wish i had access to such cheap hardware. Companies in my country use them till it gets junked and most refurbishers sell for maybe 20% less than brand new but with significanly reduced warranty.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago

They can be found cheap as shit. I got a great t480 for less than $150 and another $50 I upgraded my RAM and battery. It's a really nice laptop and only cost me a couple hundred.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Cost.

Older Thinkpads remain extremely capable and (crucially) highly repairable. The T series in particular is also better built (read: more solid chassis) than many others, including some on this list.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to support these alternatives given the absolute shock difference in cost. $300 bucks for a used T series gets you a lot from a customizability, repairability, and reliability standpoint.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago

Cost and availability.

Most of those laptops cost over 1000€ if not even closer to 2000. And they don't seem to ship to all countries.

While you can get a good used Thinkpad for 500€ everywhere in the world.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago

First of all I wouldn't use a pre-installed OS (I would always wipe and install my own for security reasons).

Secondly: Thinkpads (at least when I bought mine, last year) let you buy them without an OS and don't charge you for it.

Thirdly: the linked manufacturers above tend to be either US-centric and/or more expensive than Thinkpads.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Because these are small shops that have limited availability outside North America, and are fairly expensive compared to Thinkpads which are widely used by corporations, and can be found pretty cheaply.

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[–] danielfgom 30 points 1 year ago

Price. You can find second hand Thinkpad's whereas new laptops are very expensive.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They stand the test of time, used ones can be bought at reasonable prices, there is an abundance of configurations, and they still have the best (the only good) keyboards for any laptop.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

Avoid purism at all costs. Watch Louis Rossman video on Purism mobile.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

None of them are available in my country

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

for a lot of people (me included), a cheap second hand thinkpad (or dell pro) with a light distro would be more than enough to cover their computing needs for years.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Secret sauce: it's much easier to get an employer on board with buying you a Thinkpad as part of a bulk order than it is to get them to spring for any of these more obscure models as a one-off.

[–] starclaude 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

yeah good luck getting those brand outside of US

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[–] eruchitanda 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It saddens me to say this, but don't buy from Purism. My Librem 5, after 2 years, still didn't arrive.

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[–] erasebegin 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thinkpads tend to have excellent build quality, solid firmware and well thought out design. Price to performance on second-hand models is always outstanding and their popularity ensures hardware compatibility with Linux.

Of the brands you named, I just don't trust the hardware. Tuxedo computers for example uses Tongfang white-label computers that they just slap their logo on. Quality control isn't as thorough as Lenovo's, firmware is sketchy, TDP tends to be all over the place and keyboard quality doesn't come close.

Thinkpads also have-- and I can't stress the importance of this enough-- a nipple. I don't really use it, but if you try to take it away from me I'll bite you.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

I have no dog in this fight, but of the brands mentioned, I’ve heard of 1, and I consider myself fairly techy. Lenovo is a brand name that most people are going to recognize and implicitly trust (whether they should or not)

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I usually grab a 3-4 year old Thinkpad every year or so for anywhere from free to 300 bucks. I pick them up from old corporate liquidation lots. Usually grab one that is a little dirty or beat up and then just clean it up and install my own SSD and upgrade ram from my stockpile.

I like some of the others on that list, but with how cheaply and easily I can get a Thinkpad, I just can't be bothered to spend more. I use my laptop mainly for code, and I do a lot of low-level programming so performance is usually way more than enough. The programs I write are extremely small and very efficient. Any processor from the last 20+ years will run what I am usually working on.

When I want to spend big bucks on a computer, I put that money towards my desktop where I do more gaming and some digital artwork.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

None of them really match the ThinkPad reliability, cost effectiveness and after sales experience.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

For me it is mostly the price. I don't need much and a Seconds Hand ThinkPad ist enough for my needs and much less expensive than buying a New Laptop.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Lenovo makes great computers. They have amazing price-to-performance ratios.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

My third world country only have Thinkpad around so. It is what it is.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'd say lack of marketing and higher price tags. Money / Performance ratio is also better with a decent Thinkpad.

Some of these options can't (or not without high markups) be bought and shipped to Canada.

Because it use common hardware and bought "en masse" by enterprises; they tend to be more supported with FOSS than other options.

I've been happy with my used T480 so far.

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[–] jg1i 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I bought a Framework once. The build quality was better than System76, but not great. However, Framework is not a Linux laptop. They designed it for Windows and only afterwards they were surprised to find that people wanted it for Linux.

A lot of Linux laptops don't have HiDPI displays because they're not really compatible.

Example Framework: https://community.frame.work/t/tracking-state-of-hidpi-on-linux/8301

For years people have been trying to work around Framework's poor display choice. And they're still trying.

If you have a regular DPI display, you get to avoid a whole class of bugs and issues.

If you wanna have a good time with Linux, you need some mechanical sympathy.

Btw, tbh, brb, I've had good success with the Dell XPS 13 and the Lenovo X1 Carbon. System76 build quality was meh.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Refurbished ThinkPads are awesome!

  • Availability - ThinkPads are very popular in corporate environments and are generally replaced every 2-3 years. Although mostly Intel CPUs, there is a wide variety CPU+GPU available from lightweight to high performance.
  • Tough + well built + last forever
  • Easy to upgrade/repair. They're very user-accessible and its simple to upgrade RAM or SSD/M.2 drives. Plus, because they are so popular in the corporate environment, replacement parts (from batteries to WiFi+Bluetooth chipsets to trckpads) are very available and cheap.
  • Well supported in most (if not all) linux distros. Graphics just work, trackpads just work, WiFi just works.
  • Cheap.

Sent from my ThinkPad T580 (with both an internal and removable battery, I get 10+ hours of battery life)

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[–] Agent641 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Heck, why buy a pre-made laptop anyway, just take this bag of microchips and this spool of solder and compile your own!

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[–] Soleos 15 points 1 year ago

Same reason most people recommend gettinf a Honda/Toyota when asked for a general recommendation for a car. If you need to ask the question, then your needs are probably not that specialized. So something generally reliable, widely accessible, and good value would be appropriate. Lenovo still tends to fit that description.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Most of these are pretty expensive. I got a used Thinkpad for less than 200 bucks, and it works great for the price and my use case.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Availability for me, none of those brands are available in my country.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Not everyone can spend +1000 dollars on a computer.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because getting rid of Windows on a new device is half the fun

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In Denmark (maybe all of EU?), you can buy them a bit cheaper without OS.

Edit: It's a Danish ruling from 2011, according to this. But it's not that you can buy the machine without Windows, but that you can get a refund for Windows if you haven't activated it.

The story mentions that that's been Microsoft practice for several years prior, but that consumers rarely use the opportunity.

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