this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2025
274 points (99.6% liked)

World News

33741 readers
649 users here now

News from around the world!

Rules:

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
all 36 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] mercano 49 points 1 week ago

The man can get his country into NATO, I’d say he has earned his retirement.

[–] Ghostalmedia 30 points 1 week ago
[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Is NATO membership still a valid goal to pursue?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago

"Valid" as in feasible? No. The war was started to keep Ukraine out of NATO, and Ukraine wasn't fully backed by NATO in the war because it isn't willing to go to war with Russia just for Ukraine.

[–] tomatolung 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'm not an expert, but have read a decent amount on this. Others may have more and better info.

With that said, even if an Article 5 invocation won't bring the US into your fight, it provides a hefty infrastructure of value to countries in it. From basing, to logistics, to intelligence, to aid, it is valuable. Now the politics of it are complicated and the US can hinder some of that value, but it still means that in Europe if Russia provides an Article 5 reason, other countries in NATO can choose to help in various forms. That's not nothing. It's also faster and less arduous then negotiating individual defense treaties with neighbors and others.

So yes, overall probably still worth it. Even if just as an entree into other alliances.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

i think the thread starter question is more about if nato is even about to continue existing

[–] Skyrmir 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

From what I'm seeing out of Germany, NATO isn't going anywhere. The US might not be a continuing part of it.

Also there's still an off chance China might play a part in Ukraine. They have Putin by the short and curlies, and could offer a better deal than the US for mineral rights. It might hinge on if Trump pisses off Xi with this trade war crap, or gets in the way of him taking Taiwan.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Sure, in the way The Spiders From Mars didn't go anywhere after Bowie fucked off.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

I'm confused by anyone who demands Ukraine should cede territory and denies they can ever join NATO. Have fun seeing Crimean/Ukrainian/etc. conflicts repeat every few years while Russia keeps learning the lesson that imperialism is back in style. Are these people literal children, or Russian bots?

Ukraine agreed to give up their nukes as part of the Budapest Memorandum which Russia shat on, and the United States showed how little their security assurances were worth. The sad reality now is Ukraine could be admitted to NATO tomorrow and it would not matter one bit, because our current president believes himself a king who cannot be forced to abide any previous treaty, law, or norm of human decency.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

Right, Russia simply shat on the Budapest Memorandum unprovoked; the West and Ukraine didn’t shit on any promises and accords beforehand. And history began exactly three years.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

Speaking of "literal children": people like you who don't know the difference between "is" and "ought"